RDM "Expiration" to be Defined

Discussion in 'Rules and Protocol' started by Python~, Jan 22, 2018.


How many maps should be between the 2 RDMs for the RDMer to be pardoned?

  1. 1

  2. 2

  3. 3

  4. 4

  5. Up to staff's discretion

  6. 30 minutes

  7. 1 hour

  8. 1 and a half hours

  9. 2 hours

  10. Go by rounds, not time or maps

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Python~

    Python~ Young Bard VIP Silver Emerald

    As it stands, mods have discretion on whether or not to put a slay on someone who didn't RDM the map prior, but rather the map before that, and so on

    For instance, if I RDM on Dolls and get slain, play through the next map just fine, then RDM on the map after that, then a mod can decide to slay me twice, or pardon me and slay me once
    At least, this is what I have been told. For example (when I told a mod that someone he was slaying had already been slain 2 maps prior):

    I think it should be clearly defined when slays will stack, rather than leave it up to a mods discretion. This will help with reporting, and help keep things consistent among staff and players
    As it stands, I can RDM, wait a map, then RDM again and so on and so forth with no stacking punishment, depending on the staff

    So, how many maps should be between the 2 RDMs for the RDMer to be pardoned?
    Either have it between 1 map, 2 maps, 3 maps, or even 4 (poll included).
    Again, this is just for the slays to stack. This doesn't excuse the RDM

    Edit #1:
    Or, we can do it based on time, as @MangoTango suggested:

    Poll has been edited and allows for 2 choices

    Edit #2:
    Included a choice for rounds to be the determining factor
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
    • Agree x 5
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
    • Confusing x 1
    • Optimistic x 1
    • Dumb x 1
  2. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    It is seriously dumb that this isn't the case, no matter how you want to phrase it otherwise. The only argument I've heard that makes remote sense is that it helps moderators combat toxic players. This is not the way to do it. If they are being toxic, then ban them for being toxic. Frankly, if they are RDMing once a map, then RDM isn't what they are doing to be so toxic.

    The ONLY other reason I can think of to leave this to discretion is to forgive people early if they make genuine mistakes or are RDMing in a way that is fun (Which yes, does happen). If that is the case, then keep make this a maximum expiration.

    I want to hear a single staff member argue why this is a good thing to keep as discretion.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Confusing Confusing x 1
  3. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    And I'm not going to dig up the reports to find it, but somebody was banned for mass RDM because they killed 3 people over the span of 4-7 maps, I don't remember for sure the number, and it was accepted universally (in public) by staff because of staff discretion. Which is absolutely bullshit. If someone deserves to be banned or slain, it's because of the rules, not because a staff member arbitrarily decided one way or the other. Admins get discretion. Moderators don't. And even admin discretion has it's limits.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  4. Python~

    Python~ Young Bard VIP Silver Emerald

    And btw, this won't remove admin discretion
    If an admin wants to use discretion to slay a player 3 or 4 times rather than banning them for mass RDM for an honest mistake regardless of maps/rounds, go for it

    The problem I'm seeing is the inconsistency between staff. Some staff don't forgive regardless of how many maps there were between the RDMs, others forgive after one
    This is one of the only things that mods have discretion for, and it isn't necessary. There should be a definite ruling

    This also makes reporting a staff member for not stacking slays impossible after 2 maps because they can simply claim discretion
    8 rounds is all there is between the end round of one map, to the beginning round of the 3rd. 2 rounds of those being RDMs is still a pretty high percentage

    I'd like to know why we should allow mod discretion for this
  5. Zack

    Zack Shepherd of Fire VIP

    Conversely, I'd like to know why it's even a problem? Honestly, does it somehow adversely affect your ability to play the game, and if so, how? At what point does a moderator choosing either to, or not to consider how many maps have gone by to carry RDM offenses? I personally did it by play session, so it didn't matter how many maps passed by. Some mods will clean slate it by the next map. It's never been an issue, and I don't see why it is now?
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  6. Janppa

    Janppa VIP Bronze

    Its an issue because some mods are biased to certain people yet allow some people off with 1 slay everytime and if someone calls it out they can just say some excuses about it. Clear protocal wouldnt make things harder just more fair.
    • Agree Agree x 7
  7. Zack

    Zack Shepherd of Fire VIP

    If you catch that happening, report it. Moderators showing bias is expressly forbidden.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Confusing Confusing x 1
  8. Rhienor

    Rhienor Integrity VIP

    Hey, I'm gonna link this thread.


    The current attitude towards this may have changed, but this was discussed a while ago with no clear resolution. As it's being brought up again, it can be helpful to read into past opinions and readings.

    As for biased moderators, like Casual said, if it happens then something is going very wrong somewhere.
  9. Janppa

    Janppa VIP Bronze

    Also what i didnt mention is the current system can punish players who play for long periods of times and accidently rdm multiple times when its not certain that slays reset because different mods act differently
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. Zack

    Zack Shepherd of Fire VIP

    Yeah I see that side of things Janppa. I just don't see what you're getting at happening NEARLY often enough to even merit a discussion.
  11. Python~

    Python~ Young Bard VIP Silver Emerald

    You described why it's an issue in this exact comment. The inconsistency between staff is unnecessary. Changes have been made for less

    Did you even read the OP?

    Also, it has been an issue. Just because you're unaware of that does not mean it never happens
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Zack

    Zack Shepherd of Fire VIP

    Sure did. I just don't agree with you that it's an issue.
    • Confusing Confusing x 1
  13. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    It's an issue because it's inconsistent. Something that isn't allowed in any other part of our rules. And as rare as the issues it brings are, why should we have it? Why should we have this inconsistency, for what good reason?
  14. Zack

    Zack Shepherd of Fire VIP

    Okay. In this same vein, admin discretion is inconsistent by nature. What makes you think that moderators simply wouldn't seek additional discretion to do this, if it was enacted? Seeing as how that is the entire purpose of it. I have to ask, are there any notable examples of this being misused?
  15. Python~

    Python~ Young Bard VIP Silver Emerald

    What mod would actively get admin discretion to slay a player for a first offense rather than second? That makes no sense. If that ever did happen, it would be very rare.

    Misuse is not the main point. It is the inconsistencies. Yes, admin discretion can be inconsistent. We are not talking about admin discretion. Mods are not admins.

    This would just be a base for staff to go off of
  16. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    Like I mentioned above, there was a big controversy when a moderator banned a person for mass RDM over the span of several maps (Less than 1 rdm a map, I don't remember the specifics). I'm sure there are more questionable cases, but the fact of the matter is, this is a rule that leaves theses issues open, for no good reason.

    And if they get admin discretion, that is fine. That is why we have admins and moderators, instead of everyone being a moderator. Admin's are there to deal with special circumstance, not moderators.

    Again, I ask, what is one good reason to keep this as a rule? A rule that breaks the spirit of just about every other or theme this community has?
  17. Zack

    Zack Shepherd of Fire VIP

    The primary reason is, there's a lack of evidence of this being a problem, as I have stated already. If something isn't broken, don't fix it, etc. Convince me that it's an actual problem and is affecting the day to day running of things.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  18. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    If something was broken from the start, but still was laid into the foundation, even if it's not having any impact right now, why not replace it before it becomes a problem? Why take the risk? If we went off this logic, the majority of nuanced rules we have in SGM wouldn't ever be put into place, because they aren't day-to-day issues.

    This rule just defies the core principles of SGM, and I haven't heard one reason why it should remain in place from you.
  19. Zack

    Zack Shepherd of Fire VIP

    What are the 'core principles of SGM'? I don't have to give any reasons it should remain in place until I'm adequately convinced there's even an argument to be had for the contrary. All I see is you guys repeatedly suggesting that it's inconsistent, which, it is - but that's just it. That's not news, nor does it make it a problem. Moderators are already incredibly limited as it is, there's no real need to further restrict their capacity with added protocol that ultimately makes no real difference. If anything, it would make busy servers that much more annoying.
  20. Jässa

    Jässa Thick thighs save lives VIP

    You are asking for a change thats just as inconsistent as current system. Like said before, punishment by maps gone by is not consistent whatsoever due to round lengths and RTV.
    For example if you make the rule so that if 1 map passes = slays reset, a player who RDMs on Round 6 of Map1 could be back to clean slate in 2 rounds because during round1 of Map2, Map2 gets RTVd. On the opposite if a player RDMs round1 of map1, they could play clean for 9-10 rounds but get slain twice when they RDM round5-6 of Map2 .This gets even more and more inconsistent timewise/roundwise as you add maps.

    While current system can be inconsistent, its simple and every other system currently possible is just as inconsitent or very time consuming.
    Unless Opalium or someone creates a system where you can see how many rounds ago/how long ago timewise the player you are currently slaying was last slain (for staff), there wont be a system thats simple and consistent.

    And for the maximum amount, a staff member who slays someone twice 4 maps after 1st RDM based on who he dislikes will not stay long as staff anyway.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1