Change Protocol regarding F-spec and how to deal with AFKs. Specifically, H3ll4flush

Discussion in 'Rules and Protocol' started by Juice Juice™, Apr 3, 2021.



  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. Yes, but leave Flush out of this

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    • Confusing Confusing x 1
  1. Pokeben10

    Pokeben10 tell me pretty lies Moderator VIP Silver

    I’ll give you this— I definitely forgot about this rule, and it’s something that should be practiced regularly. I just felt that it would be good to let people know.
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  2. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    Paci, I love ya, but you're missing the point
    This has been a problem for *years*. If it's a fringe case, it's the single most destructive fringe case this server has. Xpro might be being overly aggressive, but you're the inverse of that, minimizing and being dismissive to the longstanding issue that everyone hates. Which you might not realize you're doing, but keep in mind your first reaction to having this well-known issue pointed out to you was basically 'OK, but how, we already deal with this, here is how' and the other staff reactions haven't been much better. Which might entirely be my fault for not explaining it properly, but it is frustrating.

    Keep in mind, staff don't experience this problem anywhere near the same as any other player. When a staff notices this problem, they can deal with it at their leisure. It never seems like a problem to them. When a player notices this problem, they can only hope that a staff will pay attention to them and deal with it. It creates a blindspot that most staff can't realize they have, because why would they?
  3. upload_2021-4-4_19-50-27.png

    AFK players smell bad and don't deserve this level of protection. I will always break this rule and risk a ban to kill them, mods can lick my entire cock and balls
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  4. Pacifist

    Pacifist Cynically Insane VIP Bronze

    I haven't missed the point, it just feels like your suggestion isn't "make fspec mandatory" its "please deal with hellaflush". I would rather focus on the broader point and get away from hellaflush, because it isn't very productive. I'm more interested in what we do next time, and i'd suggest just allowing moderators to fspec people if they are afk for more than a round or two, and to punish players further if they are constantly going afk randomly. Best way to do that? Warnings, kicks, or bans, based on an admin's discretion.

    Do you disagree with me? What would you actually propose?
  5. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    You're somewhat correct, but I'm not exaggerating when I say flush is the incarnation of this problem. Whatever solution we apply to solve his AFKing will solve the root of this problem. Further changes of protocol could further enhance the general player's experience, but the direct problem is players that are persistently AFK.

    Going a little off what @Orion said (Sorry, missed your post before) I do think something new would be prudent. It's niche, unusual, and very specific. The way to address it while retaining a player-friendly environment requires completely different rules than those meant to deal with malicious players, because it would be so rare to find someone maliciously AFKing.

    Step 1- F-spec. If any players mention that the target has been AFK for multiple rounds/minutes, staff are allowed to use discretion to bypass warnings.
    Step 2- Kick. If the target has to be F-spec'd multiple times in a session*, then kick them with a warning message not to continuously AFK. To retain maximum players, I think it would be prudent to repeat step 2 indefinitely (With exceptions listed below). The kick is also a way to tell point-farmers fuck off for awhile and let people play.
    Step 3- Ban. If the target has to be kicked multiple times in a session, they receive a short global ban. An hour or so, like a karma ban. Just a 'Hey, finish up what you're doing before playing'. And these bans should expire fast- Even a few weeks would be fine. The reason why it's global is because no matter what server they go to, they've proven themselves an immediate detriment to everyone's player experience, just by circumstance.
    Step 4- Longer Ban. If someone racks up multiple AFK bans in a short period of time, even if they're not doing it maliciously, they're still a detriment to the server. I'd say a week, globally. And a week might seem harsh, but consider how a mass RDMr will typically effect, at most, the individual round of maybe a dozen people, a few times. A mass AFKr will effect possibly hundreds of rounds, for everyone- The detrimental effect is staggeringly larger (I hope I worded that explanation correctly)
    *Session as defined by whatever the staff team want to define it as.

    The thing about AFKing is that we all do it at least a little, and the exceptions to 'all' prove the rule. if you're going to the bathroom, popping something in the microwave, grabbing a drink, or taking the dog out to pee, or whatever- It's such a short amount of time that there is no way of telling if a round will pass or not in your absence. I start out rounds AFK all the time, though I'm usually back before I'm missed.
    Most AFKing isn't malicious, or even intentional. To maliciously AFK takes way more effort with way too little reward than most trolls would tolerate. But the worst thing in a TTT game is dead time. Where nothing happens, and people have to wait for minutes on end. The only thing an AFK can produce is dead time, and especially if conditions line up poorly, people can end up waiting as much as playing due exclusively to an AFK. Getting rid of AFKs is not something that draws players in, but it is one of the best ways to retain players who are already there, and that's something SGM really needs.
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  6. RyanHymenman

    RyanHymenman Conscript the women and kids Administrator VIP Silver

    Moving this to rules and protocol
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  7. Very interesting
  8. I wrote about this a month ago but isn't the server supposed to automatically spectate someone if they haven't put any inputs in for 3 rounds or so? I know I've seen the automated warning multiple times, but it's never consistent. The main problem here seems like the auto spectate thing is broken. Also, fuck AFK people I don't even do the UnIded body thing if I see someone AFK for over 4 rounds or so I just kill them when I see them because I know the server nor staff don't often do anything, and I doubt they're going to report.

    Waiting to move a player whose been afk for 4 maps or so to delay is dumb to me. The longer you keep an AFK player in the pool of players the more unbalanced the game is. The AFK is now the only detective and now there's no health stations. Your only T buddy is the guy whose been AFK for the entire map. Waiting until that AFK player gets traitor and is the only traitor left takes so long and takes away from the game
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  9. Xproplayer

    Xproplayer VIP Silver

    Because I've already brought this up back here with the same sentiment, went to lordy, went to highwon.
  10. Titan

    Titan SGM's official music nerd Administrator VIP Bronze

    I absolutely refuse to read novels of arguing over this very simple thread.

    If this has already been mentioned, fine.

    this cannot be done anymore. our only option is to kick afk's from the server, they cannot be moved forcibly. circumventing the fspec system means circumventing being kicked.
  11. Orion

    Orion He is Exalted Administrator VIP

    Not to highjack the suggestion but I still think it's best that, if we were to add protocol for this, it'd be for Excessive Delaying in general, not just being AFK. Right now we just slay/fspec whoever is delaying and that's it. If we need to get someone out of the server because they are purposely delaying, we need discretion. I never had to slay a person for delaying more than twice, so it'd be extremely rare to get a person banned for it, but it would at least show that we can and will do something about it without the need of discretion because, in my opinion, it's something so minor that it really shouldn't need an admin's discretion to do it.

    We're focusing too much on the AFK part, but the main thing here is the delay and how we don't really have established punishment for it, regardless of the person being AFK or playing.
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  12. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    No hijacking! There is a lot of overlap, and I do think there is a few critical differences (Namely intent) But for the most part the steps I listed
    Would also cover excessive delays, with some modification. The differences though are important enough that we shouldn't dismiss them outright- Intent is very important to consider. I 'unno though, that's just my take on it.
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  13. Xproplayer

    Xproplayer VIP Silver

    Cool, if you're AFKING on a populated server and affecting legit players, you are kicked. If you want to be a better pointfarm, ask me for my ethical python script that joins the most populated server IF there are less than 30 players on, so that I never hurt legit players, and I'm always repopping whatever server has the most players on. Stop being scared of a single players feelings and focus on the people PLAYING THE GAME.
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  14. Kythol

    Kythol ok Moderator VIP

    Ironic coming from the guy who used to use console commands to rotate while AFK to prevent getting auto moved into spectator.
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  15. Xproplayer

    Xproplayer VIP Silver

    I did that for an extremely small amount of time because I learned you earned points in specmode or they added that. I've pointfarmed thousands of hours probably over 10k and never affected players, get off me.
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  16. Cash

    Cash I staff the proper way Banned VIP

    I just rdm h3llflush if I saw he was afk the round prior, works pretty well in stopping him delaying :whistle: it's not rdm if it improves other players experiences :sneaky:
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  17. Yellow

    Yellow VIP

    I love my energy bill being twice as expensive because I wanted some points on sgm.
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  18. Noctorious

    Noctorious Your Best Nightmare VIP Emerald

    Ban him for intentionally circumventing the fspec system, intentionally AFKing without putting himself in spec. There is no advantage to being in the round while AFK since spectators get points, he probably has enough points to buy everyone's printshop items anyways. It's an intentional detriment to the community. It's a rare enough situation where the rule doesn't need to be in the books, just say it's admin discretion to ban for constant intentional delaying, intentionally avoiding spectator while AFK, and toxically harming the community.
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