Change Protocol regarding F-spec and how to deal with AFKs. Specifically, H3ll4flush

Discussion in 'Rules and Protocol' started by Juice Juice™, Apr 3, 2021.



  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. Yes, but leave Flush out of this

  1. Yellow

    Yellow VIP

    TomCat why do you need to write a book when you could've just wrote 2 sentences and the message would've been clearer. But move AFK players to a dead server and if they rejoin a populated one just to AFK just ban them for an hour
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Adrian Shephard

    Adrian Shephard VIP Silver

    tldr pls
    i aint reading all of that
  3. Xproplayer

    Xproplayer VIP Silver

    Then do something about it, theres a staff team for this...

    You're a former lead and here you're talking like some brand new mod "oh gee how could we possibly solve this" ffs dude put on your admin underwear for 5 seconds and think of a solution or acknowledge the most basic: if a player is afk 2-3 rounds in a row, they're fspeced.

    Oh no a player is doing something the staff doesn't like, guess we're hopeless????? Its not a script it's likely an alias or autoexec config but whatever it is ADMINS+ CAN SAY STOP IT AND ENFORCE IT.

    I use a python script to join the server, once ingame I just ill spec mode with an auto exec config.

    sounds like hellaflush is using aliases or other methods to remove their spec mode, get a fucking admin+ to say stop it and put it on admin notes, same with vel, same with anyone else. If you cannot pointfarm respectively to the other players on the server, you can just not pointfarm.
    • Confusing Confusing x 3
    • Dumb Dumb x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    Cuz I have deep-set psychological insecurities that tell me if I leave even the slightest detail open or unclarified that it will be focused on and utilized to tear apart whatever it is I am speaking about, even if it is completely or mostly irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Which I know is irrational to the degree that I act upon it, especially online, but it does happen enough on the internet that I still get anxious if I leave something unclear.

    That, and I kind of enjoy writing/typing about issues that I have even mild interest in.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    -People are AFK a lot, enough that it makes people leave in meaningful numbers
    -H3ll4flush is the worst culprit, but the fault isn't really with him (It's allowed)
    -Staff don't do anything meaningfully about it
    -Literally everyone knows its a problem
    -Why don't we fix this.
  6. Orion

    Orion He is Exalted Administrator VIP

    I don't even know where you took the "hopeless" part from. I just explained that we eventually miss him AFKing and delaying because we already moved him to spectator, so naturally we wouldn't be checking until we notice he's back, eventually delaying, then moved to spectator again. I never said it's hopeless. I would 100% be down for a solution that didn't require admin discretion, but TomCat didn't present a well thought out suggestion at the time. The original post is more a rant on how H3ll4flush AFKs.
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  7. Xproplayer

    Xproplayer VIP Silver

    So you have a player avoiding moderator / staff actions, and you haven't already escalated to a higher staff member?

    • Confusing Confusing x 1
  8. My Dime Is Up

    My Dime Is Up Its my dime to code VIP

    Not really sure I understand this thread, I'm a little lost. Anyway if I notice some is AFK I'll send them 2 PMs, asking them to move/respond to the PM. If they don't I'll fspec them. I've only had to deal with one player (not H3lla) who would become unspec themselves and AFK a round or two later. Nothing really had to be done.

    Are we talking about if we fspec someone and they repeatedly unspec themselves and AFK?
  9. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    Because I genuinely don't know how what we players are supposed to suggest.
    This isn't the first time this issue has been brought up, by me or other people, and the solutions offered before were shut down hard by staff. I don't remember specifics well anymore, but I think my old solution was to just kick/ban people for forcing themselves into matches while clearly AFK. You guys rejected that, so the only real thing we can do is ask for the staff to 'do more'.

    What are we supposed to suggest? The only thing I know how to do is drive home exactly what the problem is, how extensive the problem is, so you can finally do something about it.
  10. Interesting
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    AFKs in general. No offense, but I don't see you on very often, so I wouldn't expect you to fully grasp this issue outright, but AFKs are an irregular nuisance that destroy the server when they aren't dealt with.
    The most effective solution is to kick people and ban them for repeat offenses, but that has already been rejected.
    The least intrusive solution is likely to forgo the warnings and just f-spec anyone that is AFK. Yes, people will lose rounds that way, but again- One person's time, vs the entire server's time. Just clarify in the rules that you can be F-speced at any time for being AFK, and the problem is solved (Maybe also clarify how to unspectate yourself- Maybe even add an auto-binding to the menus if it is not there already)
    And you can argue that auto-spectate solves this issue, but anyone who has played this game can tell you how unreliable it is, and how many minutes it can take to take effect. Get the right people on the server, and it will never happen because these people will just cap the AFK player before aut0-spectate is ever effective- Even if that means a slay. That's how much of an issue it is, people will risk lose their own rounds so everyone doesn't have to wait.

    If you still don't understand, just look at it from the following perspective:
    As a fact, AFK people are an issue.
    As a fact, our current rules, regulations, and systems are not enough to deal with AFK people.
    How do you solve the issue with AFK people?
  12. Orion

    Orion He is Exalted Administrator VIP

    If you can point me to a suggestion that was shut down in that way, for real, I will read it. This is genuinely the first time I've read a suggestion based on fspec and I'm not finding any other threads, at least not in the suggestion subforum which is where they should be. I'm open to changing the way we force spec because I do think it is annoying to have to constantly do it to a player that keeps coming back over and over, especially because it catches staff by surprise if delay is happening, I just never thought much of it to ask for a protocol change.

    UPDATE: Just found out the threads are in Rules/Protocol and if you just search in the general Suggestions, they won't show. I'll be reading through them.
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Pacifist

    Pacifist Cynically Insane VIP Bronze

    Okay let's settle down there buddy, no need to be condescending. All I was asking was what exactly tomcat was suggesting. When you say "make it mandatory for mods" I want to know what specifics he is looking for before I go agreeing to something random.

    If he means "allow moderators to fspec people who are afk without needing them being the last T" than I would agree. Most afk's are caught in the auto fspec script, but for those that aren't we could definitely speed up the process if we notice they are afk for more than a round or two.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Pokeben10

    Pokeben10 tell me pretty lies Moderator VIP Silver

    The only reason we would knowingly keep AFK players on the server was if they were in spectator and if the server wasn’t full. If the server is full and they aren’t getting automatically kicked by the console, we will kick them ourselves. There’s no conspiracy.

    Current protocol for AFK players is to warn then fspec. If you (a staff member) are dead, you should globalwarn then fspec if they don’t move for 10-15sec. But this is bullshit because most of the time it will be someone who you know has been AFK the whole round, so you’ll just fspec them straight up. It’s a little different if you’re alive, however, because sometimes you don’t realize that someone is delaying. What I like to do is if I feel someone is AFK or delaying, I will hit my suicide bind, then warn, fspec, etc. Fspeccing players while you’re alive is a slippery slope because you don’t want to affect gameplay in a way that could change the outcome of the round.

    If you are dead and know/feel that the last traitor might be AFK, please tell a staff member. We simply cannot be expected to just know when someone is AFK.

    And this isn’t meant to be a flame, but I think you just need to be a little more understanding here. It can be hard to pay attention to the going-ons of every round when you’re handling reports, PMing players, training trials, etc. Like I said before, if you know a traitor is AFK, let us know, and we will handle it as soon as we can.
  15. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    Which is why we need to change protocol. AFK players are a major detriment to the fun of everyone, and staff can't reasonably be expected to send multiple warnings to an AFK person before F-speccing them, especially when their business means that they won't notice the AFK player until that player has gotten well on everyone's nerves and is a source of complaint.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Orion

    Orion He is Exalted Administrator VIP

    I have just read the following suggestions:

    While they have nothing to do with the current discussion, since they involve players who are already either fspec'd or are alive spinning in the same spot, I do still think they are a bit relevant. H3ll4flush is using something to move himself back into the game, but he's AFK most of the time.

    In these threads there's some stuff about delaying and how it's not allowed, which it really isn't. If you're AFK, you'll be moved. If you're playing, you'll be slain. But in the case of a player who is constantly delaying over and over, my interpretation is that it would indeed need discretion to get them out of the server just as I thought before I searched the suggestions. The main topic of the suggestions is AFKing but delaying is also involved in the second thread.

    Just to be clear: I 100% agree that a player with any mechanism to move back into the game while AFK, despite being moved to spectator, should have some sort of punishment and it should be quick, meaning that it shouldn't require discretion. But at the same time, we can't really fit punishment for it into the ones that we already have. For example, RDM and Leave and Mass RDM were merged into one.

    Let's say we place Spectator Avoidance/Excessive Delaying into the Harassment protocol because it's the most fitting and also to not clutter with extra punishment protocol. We'd be warning a person that isn't even online and moving them. They would then inevitably move back and be kicked. Now just as an example, let's say the person is Xpro because he uses a script to join the server while AFK. He'd be banned for 1 day without even being in front of his screen since he'd join the server and delay a round.

    What we currently do is either slay or fspec the person, depending on what their current game state is, playing or AFK respectively. Maybe we could do that as 1st and 2nd offense of major delaying then a kick, followed by a ban of a short length, probably 8 to 12 hours. Players with excessive kicks for delaying would be treated the same way as someone with excessive gags, when they are purposely mic spamming then stopping on the rgag, or karma bans. It's a niche protocol that won't really be used all that often, but it could work to avoid these annoying situations. We just need to discuss this further to see if other staff would approve of it, and if the community itself approves, which it probably does.
  17. Xproplayer

    Xproplayer VIP Silver

    Staff team: This is a consistent problem, I play like 3 hours a week and I've noticed issues with players not getting fspeced every time. Maybe because ya'll are fine dying early or even suiciding because you have reports, but players who are going for actual round wins are having their experience hurt.

    Ya'll discussing me in all your secret channels like I'm out to get you, ffs just focus on the player experience.
    • Like Like x 1
  18. TragicMagic

    TragicMagic Active Member

    But when, and how?
    Hella has been doing this for so long that it is literally a community meme at this point, with no apparent punishment. Is this ever going to be dealt with? Because the way it's seemed for the last month is that staff keep saying "oh yeah, this stuff is punishable, don't worry" with no actual punishment being executed.
  19. Xproplayer

    Xproplayer VIP Silver

    No its the staff team like "its punishable, we fspeced hella!" then 5 seconds later "oh he went back to regular mode, guess he's a loopholing god #unbannable"

    like wat, admins have discretion and if this was a grey area a lead could make it a community clarified thing within a week.
  20. Pacifist

    Pacifist Cynically Insane VIP Bronze

    We were trying, but then you decided to come in here and start trouble. Literally nobody in this thread is disagreeing with you, yet for some reason you have come off as combative as humanly possible.

    Hellaflush was already warned, but his is an edge case more so than anything. The bottom line is what to do about it. I would suggest just allowing staff members to fspec afk players after a round, and then if we have to keep fspecing players they be removed from the server or warned/banned if it got really bad.
    • Old Old x 1