Rule Change: C4/Tripmine Callouts & Proximity (Edit 5/16/17)

I would love to add my points but Carned said them all already.
In response to Xpro's video with people who say that he could have gotten DNA or get a Detective to get DNA, would you think the Detective would believe him or follow him to that area, given the time, probably not. While all of that happening, asking the D to get DNA from all the way down there, the Traitor could have already killed more people.

 

About time the rule was changed. Never made much sense to me that people could be killed for not calling out c4 when the call outs were hardly useful to begin with. Even when people called out c4 they usually don't say where which really doesn't help a lot and can end up getting the one that call it out to be killed. People says the removal helps the Ts, but the old rule meant the c4 could result in deaths from people not calling it out which most of the time ended up being innos so I can't see how that wasn't aiding the Ts in that regard since the c4 could cause ppl to kill each other without even going off before.

 

Spoiler: What

This logic is not good logic. There are many rules in place right now that contradict your statement. A good example being -any- other traitorous act we have right now. If you witness anyone else ignoring a callout, like shooting someone, witnessing someone walk past an UNID'd and they don't shoot them, so on, they can be killed by GBA.

What people are trying to convey to you is that a C4 is by definition, is a Traitor Weapon. There should be no reason other place-able T Weapons (Death Station, Tripwires, Ect) should now, by the logic of this new rule, be considered as not Traitorous to just stare at and do nothing about it.

To those trying to say "Its a fast paced game, we can't expect everyone to call people out." The website itself that even developed the game, states Knowledge is power in this game mode. To gain knowledge, we have to communicate.


And lets not use the Space Shuttle Analogy. Mission Control and those people on the ground play just as big of a part as those building the rocket.

 

Should we remove GBA as well then, since it creates a lot of ways to loophole? I've never ever during my time playing and staffing Gmod encountered a situation like the ones you mentioned.

And as much as I want to agree on the ''its just a game bro'', it's a game me and a lot of people spend time on, and if we start removing all logic and common sense related things out of it little by little then we'll end up with a really hollow game where you will probably only be allowed to kill a Traitor if they went into a Traitor tester and the light went red.

 

My problem with ruling in the end is that it removes the risk/reward factor hugely and just makes the server more towards just a pure teamshooting game which if I wanted to play, I would just go play CSGO. I disagree completely that the game rules are changed for experienced players and made the game worse(in sense of strategy) just because casual players are too lazy/not filling to commit. C4 overally created a unique risk/reward system and you had a lot of options before that were all doable but with this ruling its just more linear.

(as innocent)Before you had the options of:
Low risk+reward: Calling it out and moving to a safe distance yourself. Which you would do if you didnt think you can defuse it yourself so you just move on but make sure you help your teammates know theres C4 and you cannot be killed by innocents as you called it out.
Medium risk+reward: Calling it out and staying near it, seeing if detective comes or another player and seeing what they do. Obviously the traitor now knows where you are so he might come and kill you(that being the biggest risk) but you will get extra knowledge as more people come and you see their behavior and how they act towards the C4. (Maybe another inno defuses it so you know they are proven etc.)
High risk+reward: Not calling it out while having DNA scanner, you put yourself in risk of getting killed by another innocent while spending time with the C4 but you dont notify the traitor about the situation as obviously. You get rewarded with DNA of a ~100% traitor so there should be some risk involved.
Also high risk+reward would be the" scummy play" of what highwon mentioned, on purpose not calling out the C4 hoping it kills innocents and traitors a like(or camping it for some time and seeing if another player calls it out/defuses it or just killing them if they obviously ignore it), so if you focus on carrying yourself, you get the maximum amount of information. However likewise, to get this amount of information you had to risk it by not calling out the C4 and hoping an innocent(especially detective) doesnt kill you for doing a T act.

Now with the new rules the risk reward system is thrown out of the window, the "best" plays are same risk as other plays. There is no special risk in getting the DNA that you know(99.9999%) is from T(well 1/6). Also for majority of the time for me its now smarter to not call out the C4 at all as that gives the most information possible while putting me in 0 risk as I cannot be killed for it. That is obviously since I do not know who are my teammates, unless I know atleast 3-4 provens with few Ts dead, only then would it be smarter to call it out as I already have very good information on who is on my team.


For random discussions.

While we have to warn for very generic things like grenades, T traps etc, I dont think this is a valid point.

Going to be repeat but bindings.

For my suggestion here on the situation: We already have a problem with warnings as there is no where in the rules written that as a innocent you have to warn for things like grenades etc incase of crossfire. So why wasnt it done so that there was a general "having to warn" rule section in extended rules? Add warning rules to a specific spot in the extended rules and under that make a suggestion "You can make a fast bind to say a warning by writing this in console: bind "key" "say Im throwing a grenade" or bind "key" "say Theres a C4 here". An average player who has read the rules now would get the understanding of "having to warn" rules for innocent and instantly get the info how to bind things to make it faster incase they prefer it.

+1000. Even now I have very hard time instantly telling if a guy defused a C4 or is planting it.

We already have admins for loopholing situations and C4 is extremely hard to loophole without it getting noticed. I dont think theres any reason loopholing should be a reason here for a rule change.
For Pacifist loopholing things, 1st one is basically det loopholing with unid, pretty easy to find/deal with. 2nd and 3rd one again easily tellable with video evidence and its just people not caring about TTT and trying to kill as many people as possible if that is the context, I dont see why normal toxic gameplay rules here dont make it easy to deal with also.

Completely disagree, I like to run around the map a lot gathering information and just hearing simple warning "C4" helps hugely. Since I have been to some part of the maps recently etc and knowing where C4s are usually planted, simple two letters gives a lot of information even if not told where. Obviously there are still times where I die to a C4 even if its warned as I predict wrongly or there were multiple C4s but nonetheless if you are tryharding the game simple callouts like that give good information.

 

roasted by the owner lmao

as a lead admin, i agree with this rule change

 

Decoy =\= c4.

 

C4 makes noise, decoy doesnt so this isnt a fair comparison. Same with tripmines. I have never seen anyone kill someone for not calling out decoys

 

C4 is different from a decoy or a radio- it can damage people. Allow people to be KOSed for not calling out a decoy or a radio. C4 and tripwire are different due to the fact that they can directly damage(and kill) people.

 

On my phone so I'll try my best to respond.

C4: looks like explosives, glows red, makes a beeping noise, has the potential to explode and cause mass damage

Decoy: looks like an electronic device, can be mistaken for a prop. Does 0 damage.


Difference: c4 can kill multiple people, decoy does nothing but show a false radar and dna blimp

 

How about this then:

Not attempting to destroy a decoy/radio is a traitorous act.

 

When does when someone last played mattered to you? I remember when you used to try and pull old advisors who hadn't been around for years for rule clarification? Let's not call the kettle black now highwon. You wouldn't wanna be a hypocrite now and be gone for months and come back and make sweeping changes when you hadn't been around for so long.

Please keep your personal insults to yourself. keep onto the topic and the discussion at hand.
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So what you are saying highwon is, shouting fire in a building doesn't matter because people won't know where it is?

A call out can inform a detective with equipment to disarm it or warn people to get away. Not calling out it out can kill people. That's why it was considered a traitorous act.

A good t yes could call it out to avoid a kos, but isn't that the sign of a good t who is paying attention and aware of their surroundings and what people are doing? The point of a t is to lie afterall so why does it matter if they have an option to get out of a kos and be smart about it?

 

Shooting the props that look like radios/decoys don't have spark particles fly out when shot, and shooting someone because you thought it was a decoy when in reality it was a prop is RDM, because you killed off suspicion. It's not that hard to shoot it yourself once to make sure it's a real decoy/radio before gunning the person down. This community is based off of not being trigger happy and killing people only when you're sure that they are a T.

 

either it applies to all t equipment or none

 

The same could be said for traitors identifying bodies to avoid being kosed.

Even if the traitor did call out c4, that would be a really bad move because they made people aware of their c4 and if they get caught near one, it's a way to get out of being kosed like what I mentioned above with unids.

I haven't played gmod in months but I can remember when people calling out c4s saved lives. Sure they don't give you a location but it makes you play more cautiously and avoid the obvious c4 spots.

Example: playing on 67th way and someone calls out c4. Even without giving a location, The first thing i would do is get away from the basement as fast as possible.