Here's you literally showing bias towards a fellow staff member by allowing him to RDM you, as you put, "blatantly". Would you have done this for a regular player? Maybe not, maybe so. Do you forgive everytime someone blatantly rdms you? most likely not, unless you're like some players who just don't care. Either way, this shows that the staff have the ability to be biased when deciding to slay or not (or in this thread; deciding when to count past slays, same concept really just different scenario)
I am inclined to forgive all people, unless something is perceived as directly malicious, yes. It isn't a bias towards Kasta, it's a personal take on how I feel about people RDMing ME in particular. I don't like seeing people slain, if I can forgive it, I tend to.
The bad side of this happens. Maybe not as frequently, but it happens. This isn't a server that values quantity over quality. If you are not 100% sure of something, it's not allowed to happen. This falls under the 100%, and it's something that can be fixed, so why would you be so opposed to fixing it?
Provide proof of any frequency at all. This is my problem. Why are you still asking questions and not providing the most basic evidence needed to support your point?
How is any of that evidence of a problem? ? ? What they do isn't a problem, it's how our current policy works. There's no -problem- with it.
The current system IS the problem. I don't know why you don't understand this. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, anywhere else in SGM, where every single moderator could enforce the rules differently from everyone else. There have been cases in the past, ones which I am really not going to spend the time digging through all the reports and messages to give you evidence for, because honestly, you should be smart enough to know that they exist, just by using common sense, that these incidents have happened at least once, where people were slain after an inordinate amount of times/maps had passed between RDMs. It doesn't matter that they might have been toxic, or they were doing other tings, because there are other rules to cover those situations.
Still waiting for you to elaborate meaningfully on HOW it's a problem. WHAT does it affect and with what frequency. Provide support for these points too, not just 'Oh it's common sense', because frankly, it isn't. Common sense would dictate that things have been running just fine despite the current system, and that it requires no change to continue normal operation.
Again, it goes against the core principles of the community. Something I'm surprised an ex-admin and a developer doesn't respect more. This isn't a big issue. It's a relatively small on that wouldn't change that much overall. It should be common sense to go "Oh, hey, there is this giant gap in the rules that doesn't exist anywhere else, this has probably been taken advantage of a few times" and if you actually broke down what people where saying, especially when we have a statement like this: this is probably a more frequent issue than anyone really takes into consideration. Being a pain in the ass isn't related to RDM. At all. If the normal standard for you is every other map, you shouldn't be holding that second slay or a ban as your go-to punishment just because they aren't being nice about it. If you want to forgive someone earlier than that, I am all for it, and if you want to hold them to the limits of whatever standard is in place because they are a dick, I find that fair. But this isn't a server that allows you to exceed the standard of the rules just because of your personal feelings.
Tomcat, do you see it as a problem because some of us forget how many slays a person gets whilst having 5-15 reports dealt with? It can be easy to track if a staff member plays on a server with 2-3 reports each map, but some days, the reports stack up. Especially when a staff member joins a hectic server on the last 1 or 2 rounds with a pile of reports. Vanilla or non-vanilla, staff members try to remember how many slays a player gets. Some probably reset the given amount of slays after a certain amount of time so they can catch up on reports. No one is perfect, and temporary punishment will not matter in the future. If you want to help out a staff member (not by back seat moderating) by reminding them which RDM offence it is with evidence, you may do so if you wish. At least something is being done about countless RDM offences over different maps and over a certain amount of time. Spoiler: Spoiler It also helps if a staff member has a staffing buddy
I think you're completely missing the point. The point is to keep someone from being slain less, not more. And, again, the simple solutions to this are to keep a little note open in the background, or for a simple Slay Tracker to be coded in. This is just a non-issue when dealing with this
This is what I was talking about, so quick to shut the idea down. It would not be hard for a lead or owner to simply establish a rule. While it's not "broken" to have a grey area, in a community this strict it'd be nice to have a simple number. Say 10 rounds or something.
Sorry, I meant to say 'At least something is being done until a better resolution comes along'. But don't hold your breath to see a slay tracker, you possibly could but I don't know what the staff is up to.
Manually tracking slays isn't that hard, or time consuming. Done right, it would add mere seconds to a report. I also don't know why it would be hard for the report manager to be altered to track such things, either, or even program a slay tracker from scratch as an addon.
None of this is about difficulty, on any of the levels you mentioned. It's still about you needing to prove the necessity, which you have failed to do -repeatedly-. All I'm seeing at this point is circular reasoning, all of which lacks substance. @Xproplayer , I agreed with your point, not shut it down. I just don't see it as reason enough to implement any new systems.
For one thing, at least I have reasoning: All you can say is "It's always been this way". For another, this is in no way circular reasoning. I have pointed out the many inconsistencies this rule has with our server. I've shown you evidence that the negatives associated with the even occur, even if it's not direct proof. Tell me why that is acceptable. Why a staff member can determine their given punishments based on their opinion of someone.
@TomCat™ If you are going to quote one part of my post repeadedly and ignore the rest there is no point. I specificly stated that most of the time mods forget 2+ maps but remembering a player who is causing trouble for nearly an entire map is not biased, you make an impression over a slay and the staff member is more likely to remember it. To say being a pain in the ass was a misphrase on my part which you have clearly blown out of context. You make an impression and it sticks. Moreso of a bad impression.
Great start! First rule in argument formation is to say that you are legit and everyone else hasn't brought up a single valid point, good work. Also your arguments of core principles and inconsistency has so much more substance because it is hard to argue against the "core values" of a server, whatever that it. Whats the problem with inconsistency? Admin discretion is a classic sign of inconsistency but few people have a problem with it. Also don't give me that crap about admins versus mods because to be perfectly honest if you gave admin discretion to mods that have more than 1 month of experience you wouldn't have a problem. There is a giant gap in the rules, oh no! Maybe just maybe we don't need rules everywhere where they are not needed. *anecdotal evidence inbound* I have never seen a problem like this ever. Personal I think I told a incoming mod once about the people being slayed so if this issue happens give that staff member the 1 in a million trophy. so you then need to keep track of 24 people and when they got slayed while moding? That seems like alot of effort. Your the one making the suggestion that burden is on you. And that rule change was dumb and is totally different to this. They changed a rule you are trying to make a rule, sort of different. P.S I never went past the next map for punishment because I can't be bothered to remember that crap and people getting slayed less is almost always better.
Alright let me clear this up, the reason why most mods or staff don't care about rdm past the last map is because there is a "Last Map's reports" section in the RDM Manager on our server. If a staff opens it(which they have to handle any report), they have access to the slay the person received last map (with the assumption that the player never left the server once) and assign slays that way. If a staff says that a last map's time limit adds an undue burden to staffing, then they are absolutely wrong because staff are 100% expected to look at previous map's reports to decide which offense of RDM a player is on. Most people just stop here because they just forget past the last map/ never remembered in the first place and only looked at Last map's report section. However, something like Mango has mentioned would do the thing this Last map section did, but better. The Server already tracks Slays to Steam ID with a method, and shows it to the player so calling that method again shouldn't be hard to add to the RDM Manager or a command. The reason for adding this rule is the explicit thing Forcie has mentioned. The RDM Offenses are VERY much laid up black and white, down to the very little acts and reasons for each act. So, the punishment for this should follow the same precedent as the definition, and NOT allow staff members to pick and punish as they like; this instance inherently sets up a way a Mod can slay/ban someone differently than another person WITHOUT getting an admin's discretion. Slays are never added to anyone besides for RDM Offenses, and without this addition allows a staff to add slays/ RDM Punishment to a player WITHOUT a reason of RDM. Just because a player has harassed doesn't mean he is entitled to RDM punishment, which is very much laid out in our rules. Adding this rule is just another layer of protection to the player from staff giving RDM punishment unrelated to RDM. Staff shouldn't be entitled to pick and choose which person they give RDM punishment to because it's contrary to how RDM rules are set-up; you only get RDM Punishment for doing RDM.
Honestly, I can't tell if you're bad at reading, trying to be dishonest to prove me wrong, or are just being generally toxic. This wasn't the best phrasing, but phrasing is something I have never been good at. This server, above all else, values a strict accordance with the rules and evidence to enforce those rules. An offense, no matter how big or small, is treated with the same seriousness until the verdict has been given. This is a rule that defies any and all of that . Admin discretion is to deal with special circumstances that fall outside of the rules. You'll notice that when an admin starting using their discretion for common situations, they got a lot of flak for it. This is an extremely common day-to-day occurrence that every moderator has to deal with. And if the valid reports on moderators who have more than one month of experience tell me anything, yes, this would indeed be a problem. People come to our servers, and stay there, because the staff can be relied upon to uphold a near-universal standard. This is just dumb. It IS a gap. There are tons of rules that we have that probably aren't needed, that aren't even touched upon more than once a month, but we have them anyway, because we pay attention to nuance and detail. That's probably because, as a staff member, you wouldn't even notice it being an issue, if/when it happened. Everyone reading this, do an experiment: 1. Open a word document 2. Type or copy-paste your forum name, and the current time 3. Click back to the forums. 4. Press Alt-Tab 5. press Ctrl-F 6. Type or copy-paste your forum name Congratulations! You just created your own slay-tracker. Just replace your own name with the name of your victim, and you are ready to go. If it takes you longer than 10 second to complete the entire process, you are doing it wrong! Alternatives include, but are not limited to: Libra, Google Docs, Your Internet Search Bar, a random forum page you just opened, Notepad, Sticky Notes. Please remember, if you hit enter after each name, it becomes easier to read!
