RDM and leave bans should have to be 100% confirmed

Discussion in 'TTT Suggestions' started by Onion Wizard, Sep 26, 2018.

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Agree? Disagree?

  1. Agree

    23.1%
  2. Disagree

    76.9%
  1. I was on the server last night shooting my gun around for shits and giggles. Some guy killed me for it because I might have been shooting at them. I didn't think I was but didn't know for sure so I made a report so a mod can check the deathscene. They were busy and didn't get to it until the next map. When they did get to it the guy left so they dmed me and asked if it was rdm or not. I said what happened and said I didn't know, that's why I made the report. Then I saw him give an ID a two week ban for rdm and leave and asked I if it was the guy. He said it was. I then told him that was dumb to do since he didn't even know for sure what happened. Apparently he didn't understand what I said and thought I said it was an RDM. He decided to unban him after I called them out on it and explained what I said again.

    Now, he said the guy had a report response that wasn't good or whatever (I don't remember what it was). And I guess he was in the right to just ban him since the guy didn't answer good. But does he deserve week ban for that? Like goddamn, that's pretty brutal.

    I suggest that a ban for something like that needs to be validated or at least looked into more thoroughly and confirmed by more than one person. Now that we only have two servers that ban cuts you off from the community most of the time since we have generally been playing on east. It might also be good if a lesser punishment is given if it cannot be validated.

    Possible Counterarguments:

    People could just loophole and leave by putting a dumb response to avoid a ban.

    That is true, but many things can be loopholed, that is why it is a punishable offense. If someone is found to be doing this just punish them. The ace staff team will find those baddies, right?
     
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  2. Acnologia

    Acnologia modern desperado Banned VIP Silver

    Two weeks for RDM & Leave is basically the second offense of it happening. If the response doesn't check out, we question the people involved and if nothing solid is obtained, we ban. If the person that left feels it was unfair, they're more than welcome to appeal the ban (and usually do, since the length is quite long). In the appeal, if the response was vague, the mod can further question what happened and if it's a valid response, they'll unban. I don't see the issue here. Sure, time is wasted when appealing because they got banned, but they shouldn't be leaving in the first place. We put a warning on the top of the screen when there's a current report for a reason.
     
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  3. NeverGhostin

    NeverGhostin Mod to remember VIP

    I completely disagree. If they are banned for something they were innocent in, they can make an appeal and there you go. Confirming rdm and leave bans sound like a waste of time. If someone leaves with a report without an answer, bad answer, or just leaves with some unreported damage we find, that's confirmed enough. Regarding the amount of time per ban, no disrespect to you but there's a thing called rules. If someone doesn't follow these rules, they must be punished. Why would we lower the punishment so people can come back sooner to cause more trouble? Rdm and leave bans for 1st offence are 5 day bans, so you'll be back in less than a week. Plus, not many bans are global so you can go on the other servers SGM has up. If you got a problem with the amount of time per ban, simply don't break the rules.
     
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  4. I am of the unpopular opinion that RDM and leave shouldn't even be bannable unless excessive since aslay will ensure the punishment is carried out. Leaving during a slay is a different matter, though.

    Some people don't want to appeal because they aren't a forum type of person and will just find another server. It happens a lot more than you think. Giving the reason that they can appeal doesn't excuse a brutal rule.

    I agree that people should follow the rules, but with something like RDM and leave they very well could have not did anything wrong and still get punished.

    Also I'm aware it was the second offense. I would bet the first one was similar circumstances tbh.

    "Don't break the rules!!"
    Of course don't break them, but people have lives dude. They don't need to be slam dunked for something like that.

    Can I hear some opinions from non-staff btw? Sorry, but you likely don't know what it's like to have this punishment be given to you. I'm not shocked staff are taking this stance.
     
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  5. [​IMG]
    :thinking:

    Edit: Lol the poll is just as bent. Really makes you think.

    Edit edit: @Panda With a Gun what is confusing about this post? Of the 8 people who disagreed 7 are staff. All three who agree are not staff. It's hard to not call you guys biased.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
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  6. Acnologia

    Acnologia modern desperado Banned VIP Silver

    [​IMG]
    ? The staff isn't always biased, they just know that some things in the rules are best left the way they are.
     
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  7. Rozboon

    Rozboon Forgive and Forget, or just forget. VIP

    How about this, if you get reported and need to leave you send a pm to the staff online and ask "Hey, i need to leave, is that report going to take much longer?" Bam staff should respond in a decent amount of time and be like "yo my dude, you can leave now" or "Yo just answer me why you killed in a more logical manner" and look at that, report solved you either get slayed and stay or leave no ban or a ban, or you dont get a slay and you can just leave.

    There's enough warning towards a player who has a report on them that they cant feign ignorance, and there's no reason you cant send a simple message ingame to the staff asking them whats taking so long or whats up with a report.
     
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  8. NeverGhostin

    NeverGhostin Mod to remember VIP

    Bruh, i've been banned up to 4th offence on this server. I know how it feels to be banned. What do peoples lives have to do with not breaking rules? You get banned for 5 days from a video game server, you're not going to prison. Lastly, just because we staff doesn't mean our thoughts on rdm and leave change. So many people believe that staff only trust other staff, that's not even true.
     
  9. Hmm looks like you didn't get a two week. But I see your point. Still though, it's a lot easier to believe something when you have to enforce it every day. I've been staff for a long time and get it is easy it is to just hand out the punishments since you are in the right. RDM and leave punishments are still pretty overdone and unneeded and in my opinion.
     
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  10. You are expecting a lot from the average TTT player, especially newer ones, but fair point.
     
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  11. People who make the server a common part of their lives will def feel the punishment. I don't see why some other way of showing them they were wrong can't even be considered.

    Edit: I also wasn't implying that you guys only trust each other. I was more implying that you guys get to work less due to the way the rule is right now.
     
  12. luna

    luna Goodnight moon Banned VIP

    No one should be banning anyone without enough evidence. That said, there are times when people leave without responding to reports, or giving unrelated responses. At that point it's up to the staff member online to check all the related logs and the deathscene, and if there isn't an obvious reason, go ahead with a ban. At that point if they can make an appeal.

    I don't think it's too harsh at all to ban someone for rdming, not giving a valid response, and leaving. If they damaged someone they weren't supposed to, and we don't know why, then at that point why wouldn't we do anything? Like Roz said, it isn't too hard to ask the staff member if you're allowed to leave, especially considering there's a warning at the top saying not to leave.

    Our initial punishments aren't really all that harsh. a five day local ban for breaking two rules and ignoring a clear warning is pretty reasonable, and this is coming from someone who has been banned for rdm and leave, first and second.
     
  13. Siddo

    Siddo Banned VIP Bronze

    As for this point "Why should we ban - they'll get the slay anyways?"
    Well, you do agree that if someone gets slain and leaves after 3 seconds, they should be banned for RDM and leave, yes?
    Since they're avoiding their intended punishment.

    If we let people leave with pending slays or unfinished reports, they can just come back another time, get slain, and immediately leave - never getting a ban, despite avoiding the intended punishment. This is why we apply the ban. Because we expect you to follow the rules, which include not leaving without serving your slay(s) for RDM.
    I believe this was already mentioned in Shoutbox by Rozboon as well.

    In other words, we ban for failing to serve the intended punishment.
     
  14. I already said I don't disagree with punishing for this.

    Also, I proposed in the shoutbox to make an addon that logs people leaving on a slay. With SGM having a dedicated dev team it is very feasible to do. This would find anyone loopholing.

    Edit: The code already exists to notify of this already. So it is extremely feasible to do this.
     
  15. The problem I have with this post is that you are a staff member and a long time community member. I've been staff just like you for years. I see the kind of people who play. Some just don't give enough of a damn to stay for the report to be handled. They will just find another server. If we just add the aslay and plugin they will be more likely to come back and possibly become a regular in the community. But if they just get a long ass ban what's stopping them from going to a different server and having a better experience there and forgetting about SGM?

    People wonder why the player count is low these days. Well, this very well could be contributing to that. I get it is called "Serious" TTT but c'mon. The main thing that matters is people having a good experience.
     
  16. Siddo

    Siddo Banned VIP Bronze

    How would that be loopholing? You're suggesting changing the rules to allow leaving with pending slays and unfinished reports. That would necessitate changing the punishment to slain and left for this to feasible in the first place - so it wouldn't be loopholing, just breaking the rules.
    And we then track or make a tool to track the people who then leave mid-slay down the line?

    What about cases where someone needs to leave early because their mother is sick or whatever? We'd have to evaluate that on every situation to avoid being unfair. Or other scenarios like someone having a pending slay but getting banned for mass RDM - haven't they already received their punishment?
    Honestly, the more I consider the surrounding efforts of implementing your system and the many outlier situations that can happen - tool or no tool - the more complicated and pointless it becomes.

    The current system is good and fair. I disagree with your suggestion.
     
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  17. Let me clarify the loopholing. It would count as loopholing if they leave on a slay that was given after they left. So like joining and then leaving to get rid of the slay.


    "What about cases where someone needs to leave early because their mother is sick or whatever? We'd have to evaluate that on every situation to avoid being unfair."


    ???? They would just get the autoslay added when they leave. I don't think you understand what I said.


    "Or other scenarios like someone having a pending slay but getting banned for mass RDM - haven't they already received their punishment?"


    Again ????? They would get banned for mass rdm and the slays added.


    "Honestly, the more I consider the surrounding efforts of implementing your system and the many outlier situations that can happen - tool or no tool - the more complicated and pointless it becomes."


    Sorry but not really, you just aren't getting it or are making stuff up. Your post sounds good but doesn't actually show any faults. Feel free to keep disagreeing though.
     
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  18. Siddo

    Siddo Banned VIP Bronze

    For the mother sick thing (just an example); I mean they come back some other time, and get slain but need to leave early. With staff on, they can just plead their case. But if not, we'd have to just ban on principle. That seems silly. At least with the current system, it necessitates staff being online at the time.

    And they would be evading their unserved slay on the mass RDM ban, would they not? Why shouldn't that be banned?

    I'm honestly confused on your principle for the ruling.
     
  19. For the mass rdm just add the slays after the ban, simple.

    For the mother sick thing they can just appeal no? It is actually what is done now. It would be rare for this to happen since they just started playing. And it would still be a better system since bans would happen much less. Therefore less appeals and more players bring able to play and willingness to stick around.
     
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