Minor Weapon Adjustments.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lordyhgm, Feb 6, 2021.

  1. Lordyhgm

    Lordyhgm Spiteful smells Lead Admin VIP

    So, we're looking to make some minor alterations to our weapons to slightly balance them out, but most importantly make using them more intuitive and fun.

    For example,
    - a slight increase to the AUG's scoped accuracy to match what it should feel like to use a scope
    - a slight increase to the MP5's firerate to make it more in line with the other submachine guns

    The aim of these changes will not be to change the meta, and will not be to subvert the benefits of purchasing ranks for weapons spawns, but rather to make each weapon feel as it ought to, and especially to promote a sense of fun in using it.

    What we wanna know from you all is:
    • What guns
    • What tweaks
    • Why they need them
    • and how the tweaks will achieve the above objectives
    Feel free to simplify or expand, but again, we're not hoping to change the game as in the words of the man himself [​IMG]

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  2. wubby

    wubby balls Administrator VIP Bronze

    Nerf the SL8 Clip Size/Bullets/second
    - You can kill the entire lobby in motel with half the clip, size it down to 10, it’s a sniper, it shouldn’t have 20 bullets.

    If you’re shooting someone with the SL8, out of 20 bullets, you’re bound to hit a headshot. With the rate of fire, it makes it even more OP. It just overall isn’t fun when people use the SL8. I was once an SL8 user, and I realized how non-fun it is the play against it on larger scale maps. Almost the entire community wants this gun nerfed except like 5 people.

    Nerf the Jack Hammer
    - Nerf the damage, range, or rate of fire

    It’s almost impossible to beat this gun, it’s a shotgun with sniper like range, and SL8 fire rate
    of fire. I get its an exclusive weapon that needs benefits, but its way too over powered.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 10
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  3. Noctorious

    Noctorious Your Best Nightmare VIP Emerald

    Let the HUGE pick up more ammo
    • Like Like x 12
    • Agree Agree x 6
  4. Dolphy

    Dolphy VIP

    Remove the cone on the snipers that have them, increase the accuracy of all snipers at longer ranges besides sl8 because sl8 is currently the most accurate out of all them I believe.
  5. Lordyhgm

    Lordyhgm Spiteful smells Lead Admin VIP

    Since it costs a credit, the Jack-hammer should be more powerful than a standard gun + it's for detectives who have fewer weapon-based point shop options, to what degree would you suggest it's tuned down while also taking into these considerations.

    What would make the SL8 more fun to use and play against out of your proposed changes. Ammo is easy but would mean the SL8 overlaps in purpose with the PSG, the damage is relatively meaningless when considering it's an auto sniper, and fire rate has the greatest effect of all and so is the most difficult to correct change without changing the gun tooooo much. What about Semi-Auto? Much lower damage and much higher headshot multiplier?

    What ammo should the HUGE take? Same as the M16? and should that extend to the M60, or does its extra ammo and slower fire rate make up for it?
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  6. SquidgyBoat

    SquidgyBoat The Admiral VIP

    Yes for the m60, its damage is so low that it already nerfs itself.

    Also, my two cents, having played this game so long, increasing the HUGE's accuracy by like 25% makes it a viable weapon. It would still be nowhere near as good as most other weapons, but decreasing the cone makes it at least useable.

    I know that will be disagreed with, but it's the hill I'm willing to die on (since I know the SL8 will be argued endlessly once certain people see this thread).
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  7. iii

    iii eye-eye-eye or triple eye is fine VIP

    I like the idea, but I feel like with it having 150 ammo clips, that if you let the HUGE pick up any other gun's ammo, that it will cause a scarcity in that ammo type, with there being even more scarcity depending on the max ammo box size of that particular gun.

    Normally the H.U.G.E. uses airboat ammo, which there doesn't seem to be a model of ammo for, and can only be cheated in with cheats like givecurrentammo in single player... (edit: turns out in SGM it uses smg ammo, according to tz, huh)

    Unless this is a modded only change... is it? What servers are these changes for?
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  8. Aquast

    Aquast lordy was here :barefoot: VIP Bronze

    Slightly decrease sl8 firerate
    Decrease PSG body damage
    Slightly increase Glock damage
    Nerf Jackhammer in any way possible
    Slightly increase Deagle accuracy
    Increase snipers' accuracy

    I hope this is not just a one-time thing, because you'll never get weapon balancing right by just taking one shot in the dark.
    Rather see how it plays out and actually make further adjustments. If necessary.
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. tz-

    tz- feelin it VIP Emerald

    im boutta lose it

    the sl8 currently shoots 4 bullets per second, with it's base damage of 25hp per body shot, that means you can literally kill 5 people who have no armor in 5 seconds with only 1 clip of an "auto sniper"

    this little scenario doesnt account for the 1 hit headshot it provides to people even with armor (assuming that you have no reduced damage from karma loss,) which means you could technically kill 4 people in one second, and potentially 20 over 5 seconds


    a pretty fun place for the sl8 would be: change fire-rate from 4 bullets a second to 3 bullets a second, change mag size from 20 with 20 reserve to 15 with 30 reserve (30 bc 2 clips i guess, trust me i dont like giving it more ammo either), and make it have a tiny bit more recoil

    also hardly anyone uses the psg, its fucking garbage that doesnt even shoot straight while ads, idk who tf thought of that one when we got the sl8 AND m14 like...?

    BTW The HUGE takes SMG ammo, if youre a rank that spawns with ammo in your gun you usually spawn with a reserve clip and that should apply to the huge (it used to on vanilla,) so you can reload it and drop ammo from it
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  10. eor

    eor VIP

    should also fix the Winchester 1873, apparently making it take sniper ammo instead of shotgun ammo would fix its shitty hitreg but that's just what i've heard, really fun gun to use but it's so fucking inconsistent. AK literally ruins vanilla, the gun is not fun to play against what so ever, increasing its spread or decreasing it's headshot multiplier would be nice changes without taking it out of the meta, tho idk why you wouldn't want to change the meta on vanilla since it's mostly comprised of donor weapons that are stronger than the base ttt weps
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Cash

    Cash I staff the proper way Banned VIP

    been complaining about this for ages cause it's ASS that it is like "oh maybe you hit 100 headshot, maybe 83 who knows
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Pacifist

    Pacifist Cynically Insane VIP Bronze

    Dude the SL8 is fucking stupid because in everyone else's hands the gun is OP. Second I pick that dumb fucking gun up I miss every single shot. I love the SL8, but maybe have it do less damage? Or perhaps make it hold less bullets?
    • Like Like x 1
  13. wubby

    wubby balls Administrator VIP Bronze

    aim at head, click, done
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Titan

    Titan SGM's official music nerd Administrator VIP Bronze

    I mean, the irl sl8 can come in 30 round mags. And shotguns can be effective up until probably a hundred feet or so. But for the point of the game, I agree it's capacity should be low. It also comes in 10 round mags...

    I agree wholeheartedly with the fire rate decrease. Honestly, though, I think the SL8 should have far less ammo on hand. Honestly, I think 15 w/ 15 reserve or even 10 with 10 reserve would be preferred. I don't think it should have more than one spare mag. There needs to be drawbacks to using such a powerful gun, and push comes to shove, all you do is buy another SL8 or sniper from the store.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Lordyhgm

    Lordyhgm Spiteful smells Lead Admin VIP

    We’ve already rolled out one minor gun tweak with the latest update, so yes these will actually happen if they fit the prescription. And thank you Tz, I knew that saying that would piss someone off enough to give the changes that need to be made.

    If possible would a reload time increase also serve to help emphasis shot worth in the SL8?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Pierogi

    Pierogi Special Properations Administrator VIP

    As someone who uses the SL8 and can get 10+ kill rounds with it pretty easily - removing 1 shot headshots is the only way to fix it.

    Nerfing the firerate won't do much unless we're talking about reducing it by 50% or more. Watch the competent players who use the SL8 - they always go for single taps and never go full auto unless panic spraying in CQB.

    Nerfing the magazine size won't really do much either because 10 or 15 rounds per magazine is still more than enough for any half-competent user.

    Increasing spread could work, but IMO bullet spread is an incredibly frustrating mechanic that makes long-range gunfights more RNG-based than skill-based.

    I think the best solution is just making headshots do 80 damage per hit. That'll be enough to stop it from being this fully automatic laser sniper, but still keep it as an incredibly viable weapon.
    • Agree Agree x 6
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  17. Tea♥

    Tea♥ VIP

    The silenced pistol (mainly on Vanilla) is too powerful. It is a versatile weapon, and has a lot of ammo, (which I think can even be refilled) for something that 1-shot headshots regardless of body armor. Even for a t-weapon, it outshines every other gun on Vanilla.

    Highly accurate at most ranges
    1-shot headshot from full at any range
    Silent - hard to pinpoint the shot's location
    Not that scarce in ammo for its power

    It costs a credit
    Takes up a 3rd weapon slot

    While t-weapons are supposed to be strong, I believe the silenced pistol kills too well. Being highly accurate, silent, and deadly, able to one-shot headshot even a detective with minimal effort is a little much. I believe a good balance would be to remove the one-shot headshots on body armor, and/or reduce the ammo capability it has.

    I also agree with giving the huge more ammo, it is a weapon, but more ammo would make it more fun to use.
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
  18. Tea♥

    Tea♥ VIP

    The point of the change(s) is to make the other t-weapons shine a bit more (harpoon, for example, is a one-shot kill weapon on vanilla, but its killing power is limited because you can only buy one. If the silenced pistol isn't nerfed, I would like to see other weapons on vanilla buffed. (Why would I use a knife when the silenced pistol does its job way better, and not being limited use?)

    To those rating my post disagree, please explain why you think the silenced pistol should return the state its in on Vanilla.
  19. Pokeben10

    Pokeben10 tell me pretty lies Moderator VIP Silver

    The job that the silenced pistol does can pretty much be achieved with a deagle. The silenced pistol is not that accurate at far range; it's basically just a deagle in terms of accuracy. The only advantage the silenced pistol has, of course, is that it's silenced. However, the silenced effect can still be heard close up, and if you can hit deagle headshots from medium to long distances, you don't need the silencer addon. Plus, the somewhat low fire rate of the silenced pistol pretty much nerfs it to all fuck.

    tl;dr, nobody buys the silenced pistol for the silencer, they buy it for the swag points
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. Tea♥

    Tea♥ VIP

    Maybe it's just me, but the silenced pistol is much better than the deagle because it's more accurate (feels that way at least, we'd need actual data to tell) and has less recoil. As well as being 12 clip versus 8. If I miss a shot with the deagle, I have to align the shot again more than I would with a silenced pistol. The silencer is actually a really big deal because it's extra hard to tell where the shot comes from if you are hit with it, and by that point, the fire rate of the silenced pistol is fast enough that usually the second shot will kill if the 1st doesnt. I think the silenced pistol fires faster than the deagle, too. So, if anything, it's a deagle on steroids, while also being silent. Also, long-range, its far easier to pick people off with the silenced pistol, and its easier to get bodyshot kills because of the faster fire rate/less recoil. If anyone disagrees with that, you can test it yourself.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 1
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