Beliefs?

In life you have a right to your own opinions, Maul, but you don't have the right to your own science or facts. Facts are facts, and evolution is theory based on fact*, you might as well talk about how gravity is just a theory or the laws of thermodynamics just being one too. Theories generally have large amounts of proof behind them when referred to as such in scientific circles. The idea that there are many things that point to the idea of evolution not existing is, let's be honest, backwards. Microevolution is visible in your lifetime, and Macroevolution is visible in the fossil record, so please don't dismiss one of the greatest theories ever conceived of just because you don't understand it. You can prove that the idea that organisms change over the course of multiple generations is real, and I have yet to see ANY proof in the opposite direction stating organisms are static genetically*. There is no reason God cannot be the driving force behind evolution but to deny it's happening is to willingly blind yourself to the world and it's glory.*

I can explain more in detail as to how microevolution works, but long story short it's how traits are inherited from generation to generation. Such as you having the same color hair as your parents, or a dog having the same coloring as it's parents, minor genetic changes are visible in each new generation, resulting in microevolution. Macro evolution is when the genetic line SPLITS (you read that correctly) and creates a new form of life, this takes many generations and is nigh-impossible to see in the span of a single human's lifetime. The easiest example of this is dog breeds. Thousands of years ago there wasn't a single domesticated dog on the planet, then as we learned to train and domesticate the wild ones, their children who were more suited to being companions to humans survived. Maybe this all sounds like hocus pocus to you, but it's a well documented theory that makes sense of a natural phenomenon that's been known of for well over a thousand years.

Edit: I've also seen an interview with a Christian Microbiologist who didn't believe in Macroevolution, it was interesting to see him talk about believing in small scale evolution without believing in macroevolution.

Second Edit: Changed it up, 100% certainty is not what I meant. There's a lot of specifics to work out and the theory is not airtight, but it's a scientific approximation, basically.

* = Edited

 

Spoiler: **ATTENTION**

Spoiler: .

It was in front of our faces the entire time. wtf.

 

Actually, evolution has been proven, and has been observed in pests and whatnot. A large population of pests are now immune to older variations of pesticides. Evolution is a fact, and its one that the rest of the developed planet accepts, except for America.

 

Again, I really don't want to debate on this forum.
However, I am just letting you know that as a science major the one thing they stress is that you cannot PROVE anything.
Here is a good article I just searched up about it real quick:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...sconceptions-about-science-i-scientific-proof
and I appreciate that you pointed out the difference between micro/maco-evolution. Most people don't understand those are separate concepts.
This is the last I'll comment about it as it is unnecessarily controversial.

 

You guys gotta be careful by saying that evolution is 'proven'. It's a well accepted theory with a lot of scientific backing through a lot of different observations and input from a lot of great scientists/people. Still, the idea of marcoevolution is still a scientific theory, and really shouldn't be taken as 100% fact. Certainly, I'd agree with most of you in saying it's the best explanation for how complex organisms and such came to be from a scientific standpoint. And we really haven't had this kind of knowledge long enough to actually truly witness macroevolution on the scale that it's claimed to be, although we still do have a ton of observations that would say it's correct. But the few hundred years that it's been an idea in the scientific community isn't long enough to gather enough evidence of it actually occurring around us, so we can't easily test it and give current examples, which is likely why a lot of people still disagree with it.

So I'll try and make the argument that I think Maul was trying to make: like people having faith in religion, people have 'faith' that evolution is correct and exists as a process of nature. We have made a lot of observations from things we've collected about the past, but it's still incomplete, and is just our educated guess on what occurred. I'm not saying it's wrong to make that guess, as the concept of evolution has been thought through carefully and made off a large pool of observations. But the scientific community has not had a long enough time to really gather hard evidence of macroevolution occurring, because macroevolution takes thousands, if not significantly longer, to really occur. And keeping that idea in mind, people that choose to accept evolution are believing that it's correct. Certainly, there are observations behind it and educated thought that created it, but if you say that's not true about religion, then you really don't know religion at all.

I, for instance, practiced my religion from more of the standpoint of a scientist rather than a blind devout follower. I analyzed things that were said, written and done in the context of my religion and outside of it. I made observations about the world and my religion, and tried to figure out how things work. Now obviously, different people can come to different conclusions based off their views: but I feel that I really noticed a lot of positive aspects of my own life and in the lives of others that were actively and seriously involved with religion that some others didn't have. And while not being religious didn't necessarily mean you couldn't have a better, happier life, I personally found it was more common among those of my friends, family and people around me that were religious. So upon really analyzing the things around me and considering observations I was making about the real world around me, I came to the conclusion that religion was a positive thing that had a real impact on people. That can be different from person to person, but I came to that conclusion through observations, analysis and reason, not just by simply accepting it as is.


Jumped around a bit there from tangent to tangent, but I guess the main point in my post is that, regarding evolution, you have faith that it's correct. Aside from the debate that nothing can be proven in science, the idea of macroevolution is still untested, and couldn't be said to be proven even if you believed that was possible. There are a lot of observations and educated talk made about it, but we still don't have the evidence needed from actually witnessing it occur to solidify it as the process that created life the way it is. I'll will agree that it's the best explanation out there currently, however, but it's not 100% proven yet, so you need to be careful throwing it around as believing in something 100% real and actual in opposition to a religion.

 

Be it beliefs in God or Evolution, lets all respect others belief just like your own. It's a sensitive topic and being insensitive can cause catastrophic results. You may not feel like you've insulted someone but to that person, they might have felt insulted... So lets all just have basic respect for one another. We're all family of SGmod after all.

 

Aw, thanks, friend.

 

Drunk Dog's turn.

Non-religious upbringing (mom was a Wiccan or something, but I don't think that counts). I've known and thought about religion since a very young age, without it being pressured on me.

The phrase, "Wouldn't hurt a fly", applies to me. I would not hurt a fly, or any other insect, plant or animal. I go out of my way to protect life whenever possible. That's something I believe I should do if I have the power to do so. I follow a set of standards and practices regardless of what omnipotent being(s) there may or may not be, and what ideals they may or may not have. The ability to think for myself within the presence of religious doctrines or scientific papers, and choose what I believe to be right is what I believe in. I believe in everything that has made me what I am, and what will continue to do so. I've wanted to end my life from emotion distress far too many times, that I truly, truly, can understand both pain and joy, and more often than not the amount of effort I have to put in to put in to make someone smile or save a drowning moth is quite small compared to the effect it could have. I give meaning to my own existence in this way, maybe. I don't fully understand why I do these things myself, but I believe once I find that answer it will probably be the same answer to "Why am I still alive?".

It's uncomfortable to think about the many lives that have been drafted into certain beliefs from birth or other vulnerable times. I have no issues with religion, or what others choose to believe as long as it's their own choice, and I'd say for the most part when being subjected to a belief that if you diverge from the set rules you'll spend an eternity in unimaginable pain, in those times I mentioned previously, is cruel and unfair. It doesn't allow for personal growth or choice. In a way, abiding to standards like that, is the death of individuality, to me. Made even worse when these people are made to kill and be killed for these beliefs that they didn't really choose.

I just wish everyone could have the same opportunities that I have had in life to be able to make their own decisions and develop and understand themselves as their own human being with the right to create and choose the path they want, and that by knowing the same joys and pains and not being separated by useless segregation, discrimination, and opposing beliefs, we could help one another to make this world and society work in a way that doesn't hurt one another or the planet. It's so goddamn idiotic that so many people have died because of uncertainty. Because there's no true answer out there for us right now. Everyone should just shut the fuck up and be nice to eachother and all other life on this planet (and including the planet). Bunch of fucking children, I swear. Like, we're all going to die some day, and we're all riding on the same rollercoaster to that death wondering what's going to be on the other side, but you can't really know until you get there, so just keep quiet for a bit, enjoy the ride, and we'll see when we get there. Until then just follow your heart and passions, live the life you want and not the life that someone else has set out for you. Learn who YOU truly are, try to explore some of the baffling mysteries of your own psyche, and try not to be some kind of child rapist, okay?

Sorry if that doesn't make the most sense, I've not been sober today, and keep losing my train of thought. I'm sure I'll have more to say about whatever it is I said tomorrow once I revisit this post with regret. Until then, hope it's not tooooo bad....? And for when I come back.. fuck you future drunk dog, sober up you piece of garbage.

edit: btw, this post cost me at least $40, so you better read it even if it's absolute shit.

 

I'm agnostic. The only thing that gives you power in life are the people around you and your actions. Also, don't hurt people. Hurting people is a dick move.

 

I grew up being raised Catholic but I'm not a very religious man. My morals are freedom and peace above all else. Anyone who mongers for hate and control is to be given unto them what they intend to have others submit to. No matter who you are or what you do, as long as it isn't against your fellow man... You're acceptable in my eyes.

 

GODDAMNIT

 

I was raised Southern Baptist, by a hyperconservative Alabama family. It took a while to come out from under that. In undergrad, a girlfriend and I sat down and had a healthy debate on epistemology and metaphysics, and wrote down all the things we came up with from it. We were completely smashed at the time, but some interesting trends came of it that have more or less defined my beliefs since.

I believe in the apophatic, the god of Spinoza and Einstein, that the divine is to find humility in our lack of knowledge. I also feel that all this anthropomorphism is disrespectful. We want the nature of deity to be like us, because it makes us feel better about ourselves; we give them agendas based on what we would assume we would do given absolute moral authority. Yet to take that fear and need and "want" and to twist it into "know" does a disservice to both us and the divine, and it's at the root of all these religious conflicts. Where religion gives drive to feed the hungry, it's a wonderful tool, as some people need the warm blanket of dharma to encourage their love of humanity; yet the moment it permits someone to claim higher knowledge than another, it's a crutch.

There is an absolute morality that we will never know. There is an absolute power that we will never understand.

And I'm okay with that.

 

Agnostic here. I originally grew up in a religious household but even as a kid, I always had too many questions; too many things contradicted each other for me to be comfortable with what I was taught to believe in. My family has always been understanding and open minded, but I never liked how kids I grew up around were taught to hate, judge, and live their lives for someone/something else in the religious households they grew up in.

Eventually as I started learning how to use the internet, naturally, I was curious any time I came across scientific theories and ideas about the world we live in, and even the universe. I was always so interested in it, and it made so much more sense to me rather than constantly being told "god made everything in 7 days". I'm not going to get into the specific things in religion that didn't make sense to me; there's no real need to point them out. I've always supported anyone's beliefs so long as they don't result in them thinking they are superior to anyone else. I've always hated people using the bible or any other holy book to justify their hatred for something, but I know it's not how everyone is; I was just unfortunate enough to grow up around so much of it that at a point I thought that it was all religion ever was.

Anyway, I live my life only to have a positive influence on as many people as possible, and to hopefully be able to pass on my bloodline to a future generation. I don't really believe in a heaven or hell but if there were such a thing, I would like to think I haven't done anything to result in damnation for all of eternity. If there is a god and all they are able to judge me on when I die is how many times I prayed or went to church rather than how good of a person I am or what I've done for the people around me, then shit - send me straight to hell. I don't think a "god" like that reserves the right to judge me anyway.

But yeah, I guess believe in whatever you believe in, just be a good person overall.

 

This is a bit of a bump sorry, but lately I just need to vent it out as I'm still trying to piece it together to understand it.

Pretty much I've never really labeled myself anything, there's really only things I wouldn't (Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, are a few). This is mostly because of how I grew up, and the things I had to deal with as I grew up, and the basic understanding that I had at the time for the way things were. Just a warning, this gets a little personal so try not to judge me too much, here goes.

I grew up in a non-religious household, as in it wasn't forced on any of us (3 boys and 1 girl in my family, I'm the youngest with 2 years between my brother, 5 years between my sister and I, and finally about 7 years between my oldest brother and I) but it wasn't shunned out either so if any of us had any sudden urge to become a Buddhist, Catholic, Christian, what have you, my parents wouldn't disown us. As I grew up, I never went to church or anything, I had a best friend that lived in the same cul-de-sac who had parents that were big into Christianity but they were miserable people to be around a lot of the time. My best friend was the youngest, had 1 older sister and brother, and it seemed like he got the blame for everything, and my brother and I would always get sent home when something bad was going down, so it left an impression on my young mind. It mostly made me try to understand if this was the religion, or just the parents (This friend committed suicide when I was 15, and his parents tried to claim it was murder because they believed that people who commit suicide instantly go to hell, so it left a bit of a taint on me).

Anyways, that was my first impression besides the typical movie, T.V show or school teaching of Jesus and God (wasn't a religious school, just a typical public school that taught it during Christmas, Easter, etc). I do also remember praying by myself at my window in my bedroom randomly, I don't remember all the reasons, but between the age of 10-12 I remember it all, and it was also the time that made me question everything, and hate so much.

When I was 10, my parents went through a divorce, I remember spending nights asking out my window, to please keep it together, hands together, eyes tightly shut, I really had no idea what I was doing besides trying to ask for help from what I called God. Nothing happened, a bitter divorce, talking behind each others backs trying to influence the kids to one parent over the other, the usual that happens with a bad divorce. It made me a bit bitter that nothing happened, that on top of the feeling that I was the cause of the divorce, as there were so many fights that seemed like they were caused by me. Shortly after this, my sister was in the fun teen years and got heavily into drugs, one night that I remember I was staying up with my mom because she was hysterical, she had no idea where my sister was and was calling every single person she knew to try to find out anything, finally found out she was out with friends and sent my dad to get her (still divorced, so it was an odd atmosphere when she called him and when he dropped her off) my dad was also in a bad mood after because my sister was mad at him for ruining her fun night. It all got worse, and the only thing I could do was be the support for my family, show no emotions, just be there for them when they needed me no matter what time it was. After a while, my sister was hospitalized because she got to the point where she thought the T.V was talking to her, telling her to kill herself, or that we all hated her. She was diagnosed with Psychosis and Bi-Polar disorder shortly after and once again I was the support, making sure she had her medicine, was there for her when she broke down, and holding every single emotion in, unable to show it with the fear of crumbling and spinning everything downward. This was the second case that I can firmly remember praying, every night she wasn't home, every night she was at the hospital, every night she was dealing with psychosis and just wanted to come home but couldn't, all I could do was try to pray, ask for anything, to make her feel better, to give me it all instead, but all that happened was that I was once again the support, taking on everything that I could, to try to make things better for my mom, and my sister (Figured out later that she was doing drugs to self medicate herself when she was in her manic/depressed phases of bipolar).

Time went on, and it came to a bad day at school when I was 12, where I had gone from enjoying a game of 4 square with friends, to being the most hated kid in the school, I sat for a week straight outside my classrooms door at lunch and recess trying to hide from the belittlement of the "friends". Every night of that I did exactly what I did during the divorce and my sister's episode, knelt at my window, hands together, eyes shut, and just asking for things to be turned back in time, or for a better day when I wake up, once again to what I thought was God. Neither happened, just another horrible day, the whole ordeal was over with when I was tired of the harassment and broke down crying in the classroom after being insulted when the teacher was out of the room, and an old group of friends decided to step in. Now the final time, probably the last time I attempted to pray was the same year, my dad found better work with the military in Ontario (I've lived in British Columbia for most of my life, the last 2 years were spent in Ontario, the same town he moved to 14 years ago). And once again I was knelt at my bedroom window, trying to ask for anything to stop him from leaving. But he left, for almost triple the amount of years he promised, but at the time I didn't know, all I knew was that God was not listening or just didn't care about me, and the last thing I remember is just sitting down and wondering "why me?" with both sadness and anger inside. All of this happened when I was seeing the figures at night that I've posted in another thread, it got to the point that I was just going to sleep in my moms room, instead of attempting to sleep in mine first, also had me sleeping on a rug in my dad's room of his townhouse.

Those are the instances that I can remember that gave me the mindset that I lived with most of my life, at first I blamed him for everything, and as time went on I more just wondered why and how it all worked. One episode that I remember that happened about 6 years ago when my first nephew was only a few months old, my mom got a panic call from my sisters boyfriend, saying she left a suicide note and had taken the car, that was the fastest I had ever seen my mom drive, she stayed at my sister's apartment as my sisters boyfriend and I drove around, anywhere, that she might be. There was a river by where she worked at the time, so I instantly went there, it was too dark too see, but I remember getting outside of the car, walking up to the water, staring up, and just thought "Why? Please, don't let her do anything stupid" we drove around a while after that until we got a call from my mom that my sister was back, she had driven to my dads house when he was out of town and sat by the pool for a while.

I don't really know what you would call my beliefs, I enjoy learning about religions, I've taken a course on Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam, went to a Christian University http://ustpaul.ca/ and I am more than open to anyone of any religious group as long as it does not oppress or belittle people to the point that it demands that everyone must think the same way. Over the course of the last few years, moving away, going to university, going to places I've never seen before (Australia, Dominican Republic), my mind was always confused as to what I am, I'm not atheist, I'm not Islamic, I'm not Buddhist or Catholic, I live my life to help others, because that's what I grew up doing, and it truly makes me happy, and it's what I can do while I learn about more religions to maybe find the one that I belong to. I had rearranged how I thought about certain situations, instead of playing the blame game, I looked at what the situations did to me, I was pretty immature for my age, and sometimes I would call myself a spoiled brat, and these events forced me to mature, to think about more than just myself, even though some of my emotions have been dulled, and I hold some of it back more than I should, it still prepared me for life, whether my prayers were heard or not, whether it just happened the way it did, or someone made it happen/helped me as I fell, I don't really know, but it's changed my mindset, and that is why I'm posting all of this on this thread today, because I not only need to vent, but to maybe, hopefully, get some opinions on what it could mean, if anything.

 

jesus that's a wall

 

I grew up in a religious Southern Baptist family. Not the type of Southern Baptists who don't drink or dance, but more progressive. I mean heck, my Dad hired a woman pastor about 8 years ago that got us kicked out of the Southern Baptist Convention, so we are not extreme conservatives. I did the whole youth group on Wednesday, Sunday morning and Sunday night thing. Church on Sunday morning. The typical stuff every week. That was how I was brought up and how I was taught to follow God. Of course I had questions, but I think anyone who grows up in this manner would have those questions.

I am currently in my sophomore year of college and things have now changed. I guess being in another state on my own without my parents taking me to church has made me start to change, or at view my faith through my eyes instead of my parents. Faith is something that has become harder and harder the more I get older. I look at my parents, who have followed God wherever they thought he was leading them. They have done more than anyone else I know when it comes to helping others who need help. They have trusted God and believe that things will turn out ok if they try to live as Jesus did. I look at them however, and see the complete opposite way they do. My parents are both undergoing chemotherapy right now. My Dad has been diagnosed with multi system atrophy, a neurodegenerative disease which of course is incurable. I don't understand how two loyal followers of Christ could be handed down death sentences. I don't understand how this could be Gods work, or how the world would be a better place without them. I have watched them do so many things right, but yet so many bad things happen to them.

I guess this is the root of my faith struggles. I want to believe in God. I want to believe in the power of God. I want to believe that there is a greater plan for all of us. I want to believe that there is a afterlife that is rid of pain and suffering. I just don't know how to believe with all of these things happening in my life. I know my problems are nothing compared to other people, but for me these are my biggest struggles. Maybe one day I will figure it out and just "know" that God is there. For now though, I am trying to live my life as my parents live. If I do a fraction of that, I know that my life will mean something, and maybe I will see them again once I am finished.

 

I guess that I would be considered an extremely moderate Catholic. I will not fight you if you are homosexual or anything and I have been like this my whole life many of my friends are not Catholic and we are at a level where we can make some jokes and not care about it. I still love to do church events and I believe that everything that happens is part of God's plan. So even if it is like your friend left you or you group of friends broke up it is always for the good and truly it is one of the few things and thoughts that help me through a day to day basis. Having friends to talk to pray with and to travel through tough times is helpful and wonderful. I'm happy I was able to learn more and fall deeper into my faith because I have people I can ask for help just about whenever I need.

 

Liberal Democrat, with other mix ideas. as for belief in religion. I see myself as an Agnostic theism with some of my own added beliefs into it.

what else.. hmm lets see.... well I am leading towards being a semi demisexual /Poly who is figuring things out right now. One thing for sure is for now I am no longer or have any interest for a monogamist committed relationship.Which I mean in the sense of no interest being committed to one or anyone.And or labeling myself a boyfriend to anyone. Over all still figuring things out with myself. But i feel pretty good.

Going out with my good friend on April has really help and opening up to people about some heavy stuff. just having the chance to experience new,exciting and fun things with her and many other people.letting go of good amount of self doubt from the past. and trusting my friend. having these fun experience with her and other friends/people/good acquaintance. was good for me.. had me thinking about a lot of stuff now. but in a good sense.xD

 

Non-denomination Christian here, though I'm pretty curious about how others with other beliefs perceive things