Several times now i have been slain for minor accidental RDMs. each time i put up every bit of evidance i can to show that it was an accident. here is an example that happened recently on TERRORTRAIN. I found a Dead Inno, it had DNA on it. so i get the DNA and scan (note im a detective this round). the DNA was not far. i come to a corridor and the killer is around a corner. knowing that it was most likely a T i turn the corner. and make a Prefire headshot with a windchester shotgun. 1 hit kill. it was a detective. the person i killed was my detective buddy. and go figure he reported me for RDM. i explained everything you just read and my paragraph of evidance lost to the words "DETECTIVE BUDDY RDMED ME"... I'm a server regular. i follow the rules the best i can and i dont EVER try to RDM. but constantly im slain and punished because of stuff like this. another expamle: I'm an innocent running down a proven T. i start firing and the retical expands making the spread go everywhere. and im using an AK-47 so its serious uncontrollable spread. a near death detective walks in that general direction and a bullet hit him killing him. both the detective and Traitor die. i get slain. another example: im shooting explosive barrels as an innocent to make the map safer. a player who was near death is getting blocked, i misjudge his distance to the barrel and shoot it killing him by mistake. i explain. still get slain... over and over. each tiny mistake i make i get punished for it as if im a Mass RDMER murdering eveyone on the server! I would love a revison of the rules that if substancial evidance matches up with logs on the server, then a pardon is given. this would help protect the guys who follow the rules and just make small mistakes here and there, and more punish the ones who Mass RDM the whole server. and when i mean substance evidance i mean clear, informative and usable by the Mod. not just something like "oops sorry it was an accident didnt mean it please dont slay me thanks!"
Accidental RDM is still RDM. Staff members understand this, however, can't let you off the hook for it. Literally can't. It's just what protocol calls for. You impacted the round of another user, accidental or not, and it warrants a slay. Sorry if you disagree with it, but those are the rules, those have been the rules, and those will always be the rules. It's a set-in-stone deal.
Several times just because some guy cant handel because the bullet spread of my gun hit him? so i gotta stay out for a round because my gun spread is shit? yes that seems fair. i think the changes would help protect the Server Regulars who follow the rules and still allow the Mass RDMers to get punished. like i said if their statement matches up with the server LOG then it allows a pardon. i would adore it if you guys at LEAST got together and talked about it, because a good majority of the players on the server im on agree with me the the system is harsh and needs revising.
This is SeriousGmod. We play here through a structured strict set of rules that benefit everyone when trying to play the game as it is meant to be. If you accidentally shoot someone you're still punished under the fact that you shot them for ultimately no reason. 90% of the time you will have no problem serving a slay for an accident but you have listed various examples here, now when does it stop becoming an accident? The only suggestion I can give to this is to play more careful and not fire until you are 100% certain. This isn't fool proof and you will still make mistakes but it wont be nearly as often. To piggyback on what Alice said there is nothing moderators can do involving cases where you ask to not be slain as they are required to follow the punishments accordingly. They have no room for discretion that would allow you to be forgiven.
No, why add more ways for smart people that want to be an asshole to loophole. ".oh it was an accident" and sadly the mods wouldn't be able to slay them. Why cause more trouble to people where they aren't gonna get "avenged by the staff for a rdm." My second question is, if you are a regular, why would you prefire headshot someone randomly around a corner. Seriously. You are a regular who avoids rdm, but you prefire around corners. Those stories don't add up. The second case is a case of crossfire, and unless you rdmed the "T" you shouldn't have been slain. But if it was you would be given 2 slays as you rdmed 2x
Now that I have seen this post, there is no real way to fix this unless an admin is online to use discretion.sorry we would like to have the best possible gameplay, fix your issues and then there shouldn't be any.
If we were lenient on accidental RDM, players could use an accident as a way to loophole out of punishment. You took away someone else's round (accidental or intentional) so a round of yours will be taken away in return. That is how our servers work.
Im gonna mention that the examples are spread FAR out between eachother in time. and you all keep saying it being a "loophole", thats where the Log Check comes into play, and also as long as they give a detailed description of everything that happened. if everything lines up then the pardon is given, now if it was a really stupid thing like, "i accidently shot that guy" and the MOD checks the logs showing that he kept shooting from full HP till they were dead. then ya. thats not gonna be granted a pardon. im just annoyed at this fact of how harsh it is when i make small mistakes. HUMAN mistakes as well. a few rounds ago i had extreamly high suspcion on an inno who was messing with me, there were few people left so my trigger finger was twitchy. the T shot an inno in the other room and the game bugged and i saw a tracer shot come at me. and i shot him... human reflex. there was very little i could do. i understand that accidental RDM is still RDM but i just wish the COMMUNITY would also be understanding and not put in a report if the guy says oops sorry! given the situation at least...
Hey I'm a robot yet I still have like 56 or so slays. Do I care? Sure I don't want to have a bad reputation (no matter how bad it is already) but the rules are amazing, any other servers have that leniency and it is just awful, somone can go and do whatever they want, and not get punished. If we have leniency people get soft. When people get soft they can't take jackshit. When people cant take jackshit people get annoyed and do the same thing. When people are jerks, doing the samething others are, the people who can take the shit, have to deal with it more and more and they leave. When they leave, there aren't any staff cause they have to take all of our shit. When there isnt any staff, the server is not fun. When the server is not fun. Nobody plays and there is no SGmod. Tl;dr rules keep communities together. And that is why we have these rules and are strict.
Came to this thread expecting a different type of topic. Like most of everyone said here, accidental RDM is still RDM. HOWEVER, what if the victim was able to forgive the other player for accidental RDM? Example: Player 1 (P1) missclicks and shoots player 2 (P2) in the head and kills him. P2 reports P1. P1 responds with "I missclicked, sorry" implying it was an accident. Mod is required to pm P2 and ask if he wants to forgive P1. If forgiven the player will not be slain. If there is no response after 1 round, P2 doesn't recall reporting P1, or P2 simply doesn't forgive the player, P1 would then be slain. I find this will make players a bit happier all around on the servers (when staff is present). There's been multiple times where someone reports another player for shooting them or killing them, and it turns out to be an accident and they ask for the slay to be removed, but Mods can't do that. It's just like in real life. Someone assaults you, you as the victim have the choice of whether or not to press charges on the person. I feel players should have this same choice, but ONLY for accidental RDM. Thoughts?
1. Too much extra work for staff members to PM and keep track of everyone amidst all the other slays going on. 2. Significant increase in loopholing would abound, claiming accidental would be the default even if it wasn't accidental. 3. People would rage if they weren't forgiven for what they believed to be accidental RDM, leading to situations where they harass the other player into forgiving them. 4. Even mods are disallowed discretion because it leads to salt and accusations of lying, cheating, and abuse. And you want to give full discretion to the players? The idea has been thrown around so many times of having an option to forgive, but it has been shot down every time. If you RDM, accidentally or not, you need to take responsibility and take punishment for it. Period. The removal of discretion in the middle layer (mods) streamlines this process and hammers it into people's heads that they need to take responsibility for all of their actions while also being able to seek recourse (via the admins, who do have discretion).
harassment is against the rules, so if the victim receives harassment from not forgiving another player, the mod can simply warn them and if they continue kick them, ect. The mods receive upset messages from the players that accidentally RDM regardless if the player forgives them or not, because currently they are forced to slay the person. This would hardly be any work as it's just a simple "Do you forgive ___ for shooting/killing you?" as apposed to explaining over and over again to players that they CANNOT forgive players for accidental RDM. As for your 4th point, like I said before, there is already salt and confusion involved w/out the possible forgiveness "policy". A simple screenshot can be used as evidence for the "lying cheating abuse" point. I'm not saying that this SHOULD be implemented but the only thing that I can think of that is stopping it is the "need discretion from admin" currently. Everything else is already there. I've seen a few other servers that I've been to and they had a system added into the report system to give players the forgiveness option. Also another point towards the loopholing; A simple "he was kos'd" or "he walked past an unid'd body" is all a player needs to respond with to loophole your way through a report to avoid slay. Saying "it was an accident" is riskier because the other player could not forgive them for it.
You got to look at it from a moderators point of view. It's better and more efficient to slay for all rdm instead of to look at each individual case and decide all judge jury and executioner style. You let the mods be lenient and what do they do? They favoritise, Rdm goes unpunished, and new loopholes can be created. You can't see it now but the rules and punishments are setup in such a way that moderators don't get to have choice on how or why they slay people. TL;DR: changing shit will fuck up some other shit and htat is just no good ok?
Accidental RDM is still RDM sadly. But what they should do, is allow forgiveness. Say, you're killed by someone and you report them for RDM. Then they explain to you and apologize, you then realize the situation and so you use admin chat to ask the mods to forgive the slay. According to the rules, only an admin can forgive a slay. Although if it's forgiven then mods should also be able to remove the slay. Just my opinion. I asked Highwon about this last year. He said that forgiveness could lead to letting your friends RDM you, which leads to string RDM, and that's something we want to avoid. Leniency should be given if it's something out of wack like a goomba stomp.
As a staff member I can say forgiveness sucks. I am an admin so I have the discretion to take into account forgiveness if I feel like it but it is so much more work and makes my staffing so much slower because I have to wait for someone to reply to me if they forgive someone and then after 2 rounds I slay them and they get mad and I'm like dude he didn't forgive you. Then harassment happens because of that and I've now doubled my workload. Now maybe 30% of the time that doesn't happen and the person is forgiven and all is well, but it is so much more work and trouble I don't like it, and I certainly don't like the idea of moderators being able to do this. Just my opinion on this
This is actually the only time where the player can choose if he wants the person who goombad him slain or not it's up to the person who got goombad.
