It would be a nice addition to the game if it got properly balanced. Here's the thing, from what I've read you are saying that the rifle is going to have 10 bullets and will be accessible to other traitors without any restrictions, not to mention that it would be an 1 hit kill (let's say to everything but not limbs). I've got a few ideas how to make this weapon (implying the damage of this gun will be 150 to the body non-kevlar) balanced: - 5 shots max. - No possible way to get ammo back. - Recoil of the gun causes your aim to go absolutely everywhere. - Hip shots cause you to take slight damage (5 to 20) - Last Traitor only. - Should be only avaible on events such as the anniversary. - Last Innocents or Detectives should be warned with some kind of music in the background or make the gun extremly loud (similiar to the grenade launcher from the 3rd anniversary). - Time between each shot should be around 5-7 seconds. - Thanks to the fact it causes 150 damage to the body, insta kills on a detective's torso are not possible, unless he is slightly hurt. So, this would be a really gimmicky weapon, requiring you to play long range with a teleporter just in case, or having a good primary as a backup if surprised from behind. Although I realise if this weapon would ever come to ttt, it should require a bunch more testing and changes than just coming up with ideas.
Thanks for your input, Jack. I agree with you on these: "- 5 shots max." 10 is quite a few, so I think we could agree on 5. "- No possible way to get ammo back." Wouldn't have it any other way, and I never suggested getting more ammo. "- Recoil of the gun causes your aim to go absolutely everywhere." My thoughts exactly. "- Time between each shot should be around 5-7 seconds." I was thinking 7 second reload time. "- Last Innocents or Detectives should be warned with some kind of music in the background or make the gun extremly loud (similiar to the grenade launcher from the 3rd anniversary)." I was thinking the extremely loud thing. I don't really agree with your other points. Given the limitations I already tossed up, I don't think stuff like limiting it to last T, hip shot damage, etc. are fitting. I'll post my thoughts here again. "Being that IRL you could never shoulder fire the rifle as it weighs around 100 pounds, it will decrease movement speed by, let's say 50%. The massive recoil should launch the firing player back about 6 in-game feet. This will mean the player must take caution where they are firing, lest the fall to death upon firing, or be launched into view of Innocent players. The behemoth roar created by firing will alert everyone on the server that a JDJ has been fired. Ammunition IRL has to be loaded by removing the bolt from the breech, affixing a cartridge in the bolt head, and then reinserting the bolt into the breech of the rifle. I'm thinking maybe 7 second reload time would be appropriate. Or around there somewheres. Unless the traitor carries several bolts already loaded that he can swap out. No one hit kill on arm or leg shots." All of those disadvantages make the one shot kill seem almost trivial, so I can't fathom why some people are coming here and doing nothing but complaining about that...kind of dumb. But yeah, I think it would be a nice addition. Be sure to like the suggestion if you agree!
Allowing all traitors without any restrictions have this weapon would make the game unplayable for sure.
How so, Jack? Look at it this way: Traitors 1, 2, and 3 buy the JDJ. T1 stands in the open, thinking no one is looking and fires. He hits and one Inno is down. But, he is caught in the open, betrayed by the loud report, walking at 50% speed, and trying to pull off a 7 second reload. He is quickly mowed down. While his body is being ID'd, T2 has gone to a tower and equipped his JDJ, looking to pick someone off in the lull following the first firefight. However, one Inno is watching him closely with a rifle, while strafing to make a moving target. T2 pulls off a shot and misses the strafing target, and is immediately KOS'd and shot by the Inno watching him. T3 has retreated to the end of the map, and is watching through the scope of his JDJ. He fires, hits, but forgot that he is standing at the edge of a building, and flies off to his death, thanks to the kickback. So, in this fictional but probable scenario, where there would have been about 10-12 Innos, 2 of them died, and all the T's were killed, thanks to the drawbacks of the JDJ.
But Jack, after my post earlier this afternoon, I realized you were right about the damage for hip fire. IRL, the JDJ can't be fired from the shoulder, because of the risk of injury. So, I think you were right: I would add to the list of drawbacks, say -10 hp for every shot from the hip. We will let aiming simulate a rest, and so mitigate this penalty. Good idea.
THREAD SUMMARY (so far) So, for all of those following this, I will summarize this thread. Pros of the JDJ: One shot kill. Cons: "Being that IRL you could never shoulder fire the rifle as it weighs around 100 pounds, it will decrease movement speed by, let's say 50%. The massive recoil should launch the firing player back about 6 in-game feet. This will mean the player must take caution where they are firing, lest the fall to death upon firing, or be launched into view of Innocent players. The behemoth roar created by firing will alert everyone on the server that a JDJ has been fired. Ammunition IRL has to be loaded by removing the bolt from the breech, affixing a cartridge in the bolt head, and then reinserting the bolt into the breech of the rifle. I'm thinking maybe 7 second reload time would be appropriate. Or around there somewheres. Unless the traitor carries several bolts already loaded that he can swap out. No one hit kill on arm or leg shots. There will be a -10 HP penalty for firing the weapon from the hip. This is mitigated by aiming down weapon sights. I'll also add: 50% longer scope in/out time. This will combat CQB with the JDJ, and it is accurate with IRL." Concerns voiced over the JDJ: "Too OP": Given the long list of hampering effects to using the JDJ, a T will create as much danger to himself or more than the one shot kill was worth. It will be one of the most difficult weps to master, and will thus take a skilled player to actually use effectively. "10 shots is too much": I agree with you; 5-7 would be better. "It will allow people to reach unreachable areas": the knockback will move strictly backwards, not up. Coupled with a 50% decrease in move speed and jump height, there is no way the JDJ will enable anyone to reach areas not accessible with a normal jump.
Complete -1, A gun like this with even 2 good traitors at 5 shots each is 10 people dead without a chance, not to mention a whole team, Imagine a full server of 36 9 people are traitors out of those 9 3 can aim good 15 deaths with no chance of actually doing anything, Ive never been a fan of any weapon that take skill out of the game (I.E Shotguns) and this gun if implemented, they would have to aim yes, but a player generally isnt hard to hit even if moving. I understand why you defend your idea but its pointless a gun like this deserves no right in TTT to many negatives, with barely any positives. We dont need 1 shot guns we need guns that take skill and allow the game to be combat not who gets off the first shot.
Damn, they must have dropped the term "run-on sentence" out of English education. But seriously, good points there, Etched. I really do hope you read the whole thread before you posted, because I already addressed these issues, but I will do so again. First of all, I am confident in saying that there would be no round where every T buys this weapon. Just like there is no round where every T buys a Dragunov or Harpoon. This weapon will appeal to some tastes, and not to others. So, saturation, as with any weapon, I don't think is a concern. Second, if we gave each T, say, 5 or 7 shots when he purchased a JDJ (and no way to replenish that), that is only representing how many shots he could fire if unhindered. "If you read the list of drawbacks I drew up for this, you would know that the chances of a T getting more than 2 shots off are slim unless he has a remarkably stupid team of Innos facing him. Also, check this scenario I drew up: Traitors 1, 2, and 3 buy the JDJ. T1 stands in the open, thinking no one is looking and fires. He hits and one Inno is down. But, he is caught in the open, betrayed by the loud report, walking at 50% speed, and trying to pull off a 7 second reload. He is quickly mowed down. While his body is being ID'd, T2 has gone to a tower and equipped his JDJ, looking to pick someone off in the lull following the first firefight. However, one Inno is watching him closely with a rifle, while strafing to make a moving target. T2 pulls off a shot and misses the strafing target, and is immediately KOS'd and shot by the Inno watching him. T3 has retreated to the end of the map, and is watching through the scope of his JDJ. He fires, hits, but forgot that he is standing at the edge of a building, and flies off to his death, thanks to the kickback. So, in this fictional but probable scenario, where there would have been about 10-12 Innos, 2 of them died, and all the T's were killed, thanks to the drawbacks of the JDJ." I think I should add to the list of detracting effects to the JDJ a tracer, similar to the Newton Launcher. This could help, along with the extremely loud report, Innos find the location the shot came from in order to converge upon it. Anyway, all the drawbacks to using the JDJ would definitely at least balance the ability to get a one shot kill. Remember that there would be a 50% speed reduction, a 7 second reload time, and an enormous sound, alerting all Innocent players what is happening. As soon as the gun is fired, any isolated players will be watched like mice by hawks by the Innos. I wouldn't doubt that a T wouldn't get a safe 7 seconds to reload often. And if 3 T's out of 9, with then 27 innos, bought the JDJ, they would have to be very spread apart to avoid being killed for GBA. This would make the chance that they could reload and shoot multiple times even slimmer. Using the JDJ would make a T very easily a sitting duck. It would probably be the least used T wep, as you have to have a perfect opportunity to use it, which does not appear often. I have seen Ts with the Dragunov snipe people while in a crowded area, because it is easy to conceal a silent shot. No one complains about that. The JDJ will make a T, if caught, a sitting duck, all alone. Not very hard to beat. The simple fact is this: the JDJ would add a lot of flavor to TTT. And, contrary to what you said, there is only one positive for traitors, and that is the one shot kill. All the negatives are in the Innocent's favor. I will post an updated list of those drawbacks in the next post.
Updated list of balancing effects on the JDJ: Pros of the JDJ: One shot kill. Cons: "Being that IRL you could never shoulder fire the rifle as it weighs around 100 pounds, it will decrease movement speed by, let's say 50%. Jump height would also be reduced to 50%. This would ensure the kickback would not allow players to access unreachable areas, as well as balancing the power of the weapon. The massive recoil should launch the firing player back about 6 in-game feet. This will mean the player must take caution where they are firing, lest the fall to death upon firing, or be launched into view of Innocent players. The behemoth roar created by firing will alert everyone on the server that a JDJ has been fired. Possibly, a tracer effect, similar to the Newton Launcher could point out where the shot came from. Seeing as the bullet is almost an inch in diameter, this would not be ridiculous. Ammunition IRL has to be loaded by removing the bolt from the breech, affixing a cartridge in the bolt head, and then reinserting the bolt into the breech of the rifle. I'm thinking maybe 7 second reload time would be appropriate. No one hit kill on arm or leg shots. There will be a -10 HP penalty for firing the weapon from the hip. This is mitigated by aiming down weapon sights. I'll also add: 50% longer scope in/out time. This will combat CQB with the JDJ, and it is accurate with IRL. The limit on ammo would be 5-7 rounds, with no replenishment possible. As other traitors would look to avoid being killed for GBA, they would most likely not cluster around someone using the JDJ. All the combined drawbacks of the JDJ upon the user will server to create a slow, isolated and highly conspicuous T, who paints a target on himself if he isn't careful about choosing his time to fire." So, as you can see, the only negative effect on the Innocent is the chance at being one shotted. All the other negative effects, at least 9, fall on the Traitor using the JDJ. This seems like very good balance, and, as yet, I haven't seen one good argument as to how it isn't balanced. All I have seen is arguments degrading one shot kills in general.
One hit kill are too op. Hell the knife isn't even a one hit kill until you get the expensive upgrade. And that only has a one time use. And you're suggesting we get 10 OHK bullets? Too op. Plus if anything we should fix the awp. The awp is just a really slow rifle( the sniper) that creates too much noise. Both rifle and awp take 2 shots to kill someone in the chest. The awp is just extremely worse compared to the other.
I would only +1 this if the weapon had 1 bullet in the chamber. And a 50k upgrade gives it 3 or some shit
Okay, so in this post I'd like to adres a few things. Firstly, in the scenario you wrote included 12 Innocent and 3 retards, that's the best I can describe those 3 Traitors. Oh, and before I start breaking down every single behavior of the Traitors, the thing that bugs me is that you are implying none of them even thought about switching to a primary, or a teleporter to get away from danger. That's just dumb, either way, about the first Traitor: All he really had to do was to switch to a teleport and get away or pull out his primary, maybe he would have been killed, but he would've picked 1 to 2 people before his death. Next up the second T: Like, what? He had 2 options: -Take a shot while aiming where the target would be at -Just FUCKING move. And last but not least, third T: Things like these I imagine would rarely happen or upon the first use when he is not used to it, but even then, why would he snipe on a cliff? That's just dumb. The only time I would see this happen if the sniper was chased and he stopped at the cliff to take a shot. And now, the no last T restriction on the gun. Just give it to 3-4 people with a brain and aim decent enough to at least land 3 out of 5 shots, and you've got yourself Innocent so weakend that they might aswell suicide and let the traitors take the win. Also, the reason that Dragunov is not used by masses is because it's just a normal rifle, with a silenced shot and more zoomed in scope. That's all for now, maybe gonna edit this or something, I don't know.
Appreciate the feedback you guys; but I am really starting to lose faith in that you guys have thoroughly read everything previously discussed in this thread before replying! First of all, I mused about 10 bullets, but then, per your guys feedback, I think we can agree that maybe 5 would be better. Also, Jack, did you miss the part where I said "fictional, but probable?" I have seen Ts that dumb before, and many who fall off the edge while fighting, because they didn't pay attention to where they are. Sure, the majority are smarter, but stuff similar to that still happens. Also, as I have been saying all along, you guys seem to check out as soon as you hear "one shot kill," even if you did let your eyes fall on the rest of my suggestion. Pros of the JDJ: One shot kill. Cons: "Being that IRL you could never shoulder fire the rifle as it weighs around 100 pounds, it will decrease movement speed by, let's say 50%. Jump height would also be reduced to 50%. This would ensure the kickback would not allow players to access unreachable areas, as well as balancing the power of the weapon. The massive recoil should launch the firing player back about 6 in-game feet. This will mean the player must take caution where they are firing, lest the fall to death upon firing, or be launched into view of Innocent players. The behemoth roar created by firing will alert everyone on the server that a JDJ has been fired. Possibly, a tracer effect, similar to the Newton Launcher could point out where the shot came from. Seeing as the bullet is almost an inch in diameter, this would not be ridiculous. Ammunition IRL has to be loaded by removing the bolt from the breech, affixing a cartridge in the bolt head, and then reinserting the bolt into the breech of the rifle. I'm thinking maybe 7 second reload time would be appropriate. No one hit kill on arm or leg shots. There will be a -10 HP penalty for firing the weapon from the hip. This is mitigated by aiming down weapon sights. I'll also add: 50% longer scope in/out time. This will combat CQB with the JDJ, and it is accurate with IRL. The limit on ammo would be 5-7 rounds, with no replenishment possible. As other traitors would look to avoid being killed for GBA, they would most likely not cluster around someone using the JDJ. All the combined drawbacks of the JDJ upon the user will server to create a slow, isolated and highly conspicuous T, who paints a target on himself if he isn't careful about choosing his time to fire." Once again, there is the fact sheet for my suggestion. Read it slowly several times. Let it sink in. Visualize some scenarios in TTT where the above could apply. I don't think you could honestly say that, considering all the weaknesses that a traitor would take on using this weapon, that the one shot kill would still be unbalanced. More importantly, of the I think 7? people who have replied adamantly that this would be OP, none of you have brought up a very good example of how the above does not balance the one shot kill well. All you have done is denigrate this purely on the one shot kill line, without considering the rest of the story. Anyway, I think we are just going over the same ground over and over.
I think we can all agree that maybe we could agree on giving the weapon a test run in this format? After all, we won't know the full story until we test it. And also, we are just a handful of people here. A test would get more opinions in here, and help this become better.
But guys, plz, PLEASE, read everything here thoroughly before responding. And above all, read the long list of cons, and then compare that to the one line of pros for the JDJ. I don't think you could say then that it is unbalanced.
I call for a test run of the weapon on the server, maybe a few weeks in length. Of all the responders to this suggestion, 5 have advocated support for the idea, and 6 have advocated not adding the JDJ. Most all of those in support have voiced their own variations on the idea. A test will be the only good way to really see how this could be an addition to Serious GMOD TTT servers. @Highwon
@The Infamous Doc Holiday , the problem is that no matter how many cons this thing has, it is TOO powerful. There is no point in addressing or improving your list of drawbacks, since it will never be able to balance out the fact that a decent player can literally destroy the server with it. You can make it eliminate the entire fucking Traitor team after you use it (ok I may be exaggerating a tiny bit), and it still wouldn't be balanced because this sort of damage with these sort of repercussions or restrictions do not fit the game.
I see what you are saying, @Silent Rebel , but I disagree. The fact still remains that the power comes with limitations that are proportionate to the power. Just like the Harpoon (a OSK), just like the Jihad (a multiple one shot kill capable weapon), just like the C4 (same as Jihad). Testing is the only way to see if the balance is appropriate.
