We NEED a balance reset

Discussion in 'Archived Minecraft Discussion' started by Juice Juice™, Mar 27, 2017.


Balance Reset?

  1. Yes. Do it quickly! (But with warning so we can spend it all!)

  2. No. Never.

  3. What the hell is Minecraft?

  4. My response is a comment!

  5. Indifference is Me!

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  1. Graze

    Graze Zzz... VIP Silver

    I don't understand. The person with 100$ has something to lose. They lose 100$. They are also impacted by losing whatever they earn from now until the balance reset. Another person loses 100k and the same thing. It's all money, and the fact that some have more means that they will only be impacted by the change more, not that their opinion on the change means more.

    Also, the longer we wait, the more that the economy system will normalize, and cash flow and the money pool get large enough that the large amounts at the start don't matter. It will take a while, but in the long-run, that's how it will end up.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    It's not at all the same thing, and quite frankly I don't know why you think it is. Yes, it is the same object, that is obvious, but there is a vast difference between the time and effort that 100-dollar man has over the 100k-dollar man. The effect on 10o-dollar man is practically non-existent. The effect on 100k-man is incredible. You can't compare the two in a proper fashion. By your logic, someone who has played minecraft for exactly 1 minute should have the same influence in their opinion compared to someone who has played the game for a decade.

    And yes, it will eventually normalize, and the rate will be by how quickly people get money from jobs, but that could be literally months from now.
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. CorallocinB

    CorallocinB Animeme lord VIP Silver Emerald

    We have more issues we want to address before giving serious consideration to any type of reset. Once time permits we'll be finishing our current update from a week ago, then we'll move onto the next update to add in new content. Once that is done, we'll see what happens afterward.

    For now, the reset is absolutely not an option for us now and it has not been a crucial option for us since it was mentioned.

    The open forum had discussed a theoretical reset in several fashions and even then we concluded more negatives than positives if it were to be implemented.

    We drew a lot of ideas and possibilities from the open forum we wish to implement before going into the rabbit hole you're suggesting, so please be patient. We're in a much better position than we were since the start of the server. If you're arguing avg. players daily wise then yea not so much but content and structure wise we're improving we will continue to improve and hopefully we'll fix the mess this server started out in.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    The longer you wait the more damage that will be done, both to the current economy and if/when it finally does get implemented. I wasn't able to make it to the open forum, but people have wanted a balance reset for a long time now, and I have yet to hear of a single good reason for us not to.

    There are more negatives to keeping the current balances than anything. Short term, it completely negates the point of any of the fixes implemented, and makes measures such as removing Villager spawners pointless.

    It isn't a rabbit hole. It is quite the simple and easy fix. It will let us create healthy player-driven economy. It would give an actual point in trading, and give money actual value again. It will let players figure out prices from scratch, rather than having them fluctuate wildly to account for new players and players who already have all the wealth in the world.

    So please, share the negatives. Because the only one I hear or have ever heard is that people will lose some work over it, or that we still have problems in place (Which, from what I have seen, have mostly been fixed)
  5. CorallocinB

    CorallocinB Animeme lord VIP Silver Emerald

    Aside from the ones that have already been shared, if we reset whether it's balance, entirely (structures, and such), people will be losing out on a lot of progress they've made. This is a given. Just keep this in mind.

    This reset will...

    1. Not bring back as many players as you may think. Why would they want to return to do the same thing again, at a slower pace? That's the last thing we want people to return to and so we're busy fixing our problems, adding content, and trying to make the server more enjoyable first. We foreshadow more loss than gain currently.
    2. Drive current players away. People may spend their cash if it's a balance reset and they'll still be stacked however those who worked hard for their cash and did not use exploits @Milo they will be very displeased with our decision and leave.
    3. Make people who have paid for services provided on the forums with actual money lose out on hundreds of dollars. We're aware this shouldn't have been an option in the first place it wasn't my decision I wasn't happy with it nevertheless just because this was a major mistake doesn't mean we just ignore the fact people spent hundreds of dollars and we just reset. Just because they spent hundreds of dollars willingly doesn't mean we take that into account, say "hey, thanks for the donation but we're doing something that'll make it so your donation was actually for naught" and reset.
    4. Be at an awful time since we're still fixing everything and even if we were to give people all of the time in the world to spend their cash while we fix these issues what if these issues persist and therefore delay the reset and ultimately create great upset within the player base? We can't guarantee deadlines, we have lives and they'll interfere.

    You're free to debate why all of my points are actually not possible, however we're still not doing a reset that's one thing we'll be extremely adamant about with suggestions until the SMC staff decides "Hey, it's a great time to reset now." When will this be? Not now!
    • Like Like x 1
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  6. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    I'm going to go back to my diamond exploit. If someone got hundreds of chests full of stacks of diamond blocks, would you just let them keep it?
    And then, to address by point.
    1. It would bring back several players, including myself and DTK, right away. It will actually make trading worth it for many people who right now view it as pointless, so there is that as well.
    2. You got yourself into this mess. Nomatter what, you are and will lose players over the issue. The longer you wait, the more damage is done. You are going to have to offend someone at some point, and right now, it happens to be my side. The only difference is, my side will ALWAYS suffer because of this mistake, while the other side will have it be a one time thing.
    3. You have store logs, right? Think of a way to fix it. Again, you made a mistake. But people also donated to a server they knew full well wasn't finished yet. It was just that: A donation. To make the server better. So suck it up and make it better.
    4. The longer you put it up, the more collateral damage there will be. You are still fixing things, yes, but there are changes you can do right now that will greatly improve the server, that you aren't doing because a reset would screw things up. The main source of distress in the economy was people were able to sell things in the market. Isn't that fixed now? Isn't money obtained through trading and jobs? Going to the cup analogy, why fix the cup without bothering to refill it?

    The longer you wait, the greater the dissent, because the more things people get without the unfair exploits at the start, while the damage the exploits brought will linger. "Hey, it's not a great time to reset now, but it will be worse in the future"
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    To further, the value of all money is drastically decrease because of people like me. Milo's value will be inferior just because they didn't get the same exploits
  8. neutral

    neutral VIP

    Not sure why I'm tagged here- but no. Of course not.

    If you're going the premium key route with this- it was a mistake, but absolutely not an exploit.
  9. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    I tagged the people voting against it. You wouldn't let people keep those chests of diamond blocks, but you will let them keep all the money they got. Im honestly not sure what happened with the premium keys (I never used them until they were cosmetics) but I did make my money through early game exploits.

    If we consider emeralds to be the exploit (and lets face it, it should be. If you could obtain diamonds through an item that common, it definitely would be considered an exploit), then why should we be keeping our money?
  10. neutral

    neutral VIP

    But they arn't considered an exploit. You used what the server had available at the time. Which is now changing, but very far from being an exploit. Something bad does not necessarily = exploit. You're really grasping at straws here.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Graze

    Graze Zzz... VIP Silver

    Its really not an exploit though. It's part of the game it was also patched before it was even used by most players.
  12. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    Alright then. Let me rephrase. If the server gave the opportunity for someone to get 100 chests full of diamonds, and it was never intended for someone to get 100 chests full of diamonds in this way, would they be allowed to keep those 100 chests? You aren't letting us keep the Villager Spawners.
  13. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    So are most exploits. That doesn't mean they don't do lasting harm, even after being fixed
  14. neutral

    neutral VIP

    Users are being compensated for their villager spawners. Anything they have gained from it in the meantime is theirs to keep. Villager spawners are something that we can directly recompense the user for. Premium keys are not. I don't understand what your point is here. We should do a balance reset, and then recompensate the users back what they put in? Wouldn't that be undoing the balance reset and putting us back in to the same exact situation?
  15. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    People are still buying stuff with their money. We aren't just taking it all away for nothing. they will spend it on spawners or whatever else is available in the market. This is just making my point more and more. We are GETTING our compensation for the Villager Spawner, which was a mistake. Why don't you let use get our compensation for the balances we have, which, while not as universal (mainly because you refused to do a balance reset earlier than this) was still a mistake. And the majority of wealth obtained by the collective server was from a mistake. Edit: The mistakes

    Again, I don't know about premium keys. You guys are the ones that keep bringing it up. Figure out what people spent on them through store logs, then re-imburse them with items on the server, like cosmetics are right now.
  16. neutral

    neutral VIP

    But a lot of those users don't want/don't care about cosmetic items. Yes. We keep bringing up premium keys because this is a huge factor. You're going in to MUCH more sensitive territory when you consider that people spent $100+ on a store (not donation- STORE) item. Whether it was a mistake or not- they still bought a specific product and it is not fair to them to take it away and replace it with something they did not intend to purchase.
  17. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    What did premium keys actually give people? Whatever is was, it can't account for that much of the current balances, because I am one of the richest people on the server, and most of the others obtained much of their wealth after premium keys were altered.
  18. neutral

    neutral VIP

    I don't have the full list- but regardless, it doesn't matter. If any money was obtained using items that came from those crates (which included villager eggs, spawners, just straight balance, artifact items, etc) a balance reset would waste whatever money the player spent on getting those items. Whether that player has $1000, or whether they have $100,000. This has been the largest factor that I have been against a balance reset from the start.

    Edit: I want to clarify here too- my comments here are my thoughts/ideas on the matter- not necessarily the higher ups/devs. If they agree with me, then cool. But just because I'm a mod on the server I don't want to give the impression that I'm speaking as a representative of those who are making the decision on this.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    I understand why that is a problem, but even so, people spent money on a server that was incomplete. Even if they weren't warned that it might happen, are you going to sacrifice positive results just because people spent money? Will lingering damage be tolerated for the server just because people got consumables with real cash? If we were talking about items that people could keep forever, it would be one thing, but we are talking about currency, and in quantities that I as a player, one that didn't get a single premium key before they were turned to cosmetics, have more of than most other people in the game, combined.

    This logic bothers me most of all. If someone got something gamebreaking, like an entire extra healthbar, you are saying that they should be able to keep it, because they bought it with real money. It doesn't matter if it's detrimental to everyone else, they spent real money on it, so they are more important, and even though other people also spent real money and can't get the same thing.
  20. neutral

    neutral VIP

    I apologize that this logic bothers you. I'm sure that those who spent $100-$150 on their items feel the same about yours. I'm sure you can at least attempt to empathize for these users.

    There's other stuff we can try to give in the meantime. How about we try this before crapping on a significant portion of the player base? I apologize that this is not the immediate fix that works best for you.
    • Like Like x 1
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