Undo the hacking punishment revert

Discussion in 'TTT Suggestions' started by Siddo, Jan 3, 2019.

?

Which protocol do you want for hacking?

  1. 1st offense = perma global

    21 vote(s)
    19.3%
  2. 1st = 4 week global, 2nd+ = perma global

    63 vote(s)
    57.8%
  3. 1st = 4 week global, 2nd+ 2x previous ban & global

    13 vote(s)
    11.9%
  4. 1st = 4 week local, 2nd+ = 2x previous ban & globa

    12 vote(s)
    11.0%
  1. Glyph

    Glyph Steyr AUG Fetishist VIP

    I don’t know that that’s really how a persons mindset works. A person who comes in with the intent to hack and mess with people is as likely to evade a 2 week ban vs a perma in my opinion. It’s not like the length of the ban is some big insult to someone who’s already trolling anyway. Both are the same roadblock to the hacker’s desire for instant gratification and he will probably more or less behave the same regardless. I don’t think an instant perma is the right idea but I still stand behind 2w global then perma.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. scuffed water

    scuffed water controversy is key. Administrator VIP+ Bronze

    I have to agree with this one. Two time offenders of hacking should not be welcome here, if they were interested in playing they would not be repeat offenders of such a problem causing rule violation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Pacifist

    Pacifist Are you okay? Lead Admin VIP Bronze

    I could have swore I responded to this. One of the issues caused by the perma ban hacking thing was that lead admins couldn't handle the backlog of constant vetting that came with the permabans. Often times the bans just sat collecting dust just waiting to be pushed through. Considering the general size of the staff team, I don't think this is effective at this moment. Not saying Teroxa and Mango are incompetent or that they can't handle the bans, it would just become a major part of their duties and distract them from things that actually matter.

    I'm not particularly against this for any kind of moral reasons, just the logistics.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  4. (ØČĐ)™ Atlas ︻デ═一

    (ØČĐ)™ Atlas ︻デ═一 Always Gray ︻デ═一 VIP

    Hackers should get no lieniency
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  5. jshore

    jshore VIP

    ironic considering im perma'd on SB for silly shit
     
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  6. Siddo

    Siddo Banned VIP Bronze

    This is a fair point. I'd say, if the issue is logistics, admins can (should be able to) determine conclusive hacking from sketchy gameplay. And by that same token, a change could be made to enable permabanning for admins in the case of hacking. That would solve the issue of the workload distracting leads and or building up. I'm sure other solutions exist that don't require enabling permabans for admins, but that seemed like the easiest counter to the issue.

    Just as recent years have seen a push to give moderators more freedom and power, I think you could easily give admins more duties and power to smooth out the workload. Both in general and in relation to implementing this.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Glyph

    Glyph Steyr AUG Fetishist VIP

    I don't really know why admins wouldn't have the ability to permaban. It's not like permabans are especially difficult to fix or something; if they abuse it to randomly permaban players, they probably would have otherwise just done the max ban lengths could have, and either way within that timeframe the ban will be removed and voided and the admin will be demoted. No security reason that admins can't have permaban power.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. danstorm

    danstorm VIP

    The votes have spoken.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  9. Zuko

    Zuko VIP Bronze

    I agree with @Siddo❄ here. Fuck hackers. I have actually seen complaints about people having to play with 3-4 hackers.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. Timo654

    Timo654 bad moderator Moderator VIP Silver

    lets just make hacking 1st offense a 24h local ban and 2nd offense a 48h local ban and then 2x longer for other offenses.

    if they get banned they find out they're discovered so they will never hack again. now they can just get in game faster again to never hack again and play on the servers, which makes the playerbase bigger and keeps the servers alive for longer.

    mods won't have to deal with hacking evidence that much either cause who will appeal a 1 day hacking ban anyways.

    add this option to the poll too @Siddo❄, thanks.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  11. Tedelicious

    Tedelicious The knight in white armor! Elite

    Timo only made this post for winner votings
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  12. Timo654

    Timo654 bad moderator Moderator VIP Silver

    u made ur post only for disagree ratings
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. Zuko

    Zuko VIP Bronze

    This needs more attention
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. Floof

    Floof Ball of Floof Banned MVP Silver

    Every night on vanilla we get hella evaders. This revert doesnt help. In half a year theyll have a slew of accounts to use again lol
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  15. MonkeyBoy

    MonkeyBoy VIP

    There were at least four hackers/evaders in a row on Vanilla last night. This is a serious problem that needs to be addressed with less leniency.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Humancowcakes❄

    Humancowcakes❄ Bestest Member #FreeZo Moderator MVP

    evaders are gonna evade regardless of their ban, that's what evasion is my dude
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. scuffed water

    scuffed water controversy is key. Administrator VIP+ Bronze

    Yes, but evaders that have 20+ accounts will get all those accounts back when their ban is up.... that’s just allowing another wave of evaders and hackers which adds a lot more stress and trouble on the upper administration to deal with for almost no reason.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  18. Humancowcakes❄

    Humancowcakes❄ Bestest Member #FreeZo Moderator MVP

    upper staff were the ones who undid the perma, so I'm sure if they get bothered then they will go back to permas
     
  19. tz-

    tz- feelin it Trial Moderator VIP Emerald

    im fine with 2nd offense not being perma at this point but 3rd+ should really show that they have no intention of changing their ways and that they should be perma banned

    regardless though, highwon is missing and there will probably be no significant changes to sgm in the near future or even foreseeable future
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Bubonic

    Bubonic Burning heretics since M31 Banned VIP

    +1

    They've already hacked once and were given an opportunity to change. One player hacking interferes with the entire server population and effects every round they are involved in.

    In many cases they join the server and immediately start mass rdming, destroying every round until they are banned, usually pretty quickly by either staff or the karma system. A subset of those will continue to come back under alt accounts (many of which have expired hacking bans) and be able to continue this for hours if staff are not available to handle them. In this situation a hacking 2nd permaban would force those people to buy more accounts or discontinue interfering with the servers, only giving them 2 go arounds per account.

    The second and much worse issue are the players who only hack when they think they can get away with it, waiting for either no staff to be on or only hacking when they are traitors and see all of the staff alive on the scoreboard. Many of these also use a hack to see if they are being spectated and others that directly intrude upon the servers and property of SGM. These players are, for obvious reasons, much harder to catch, with at least one only being found out through his own public admission of hacking. I think that a hacking 2nd permaban would be an effective tool to use against this category of hacker because their bans usually come after many missed offenses, possibly hacking for months under the radar. In my opinion this is one of the most severe offenses you can commit here, with only breaking real world law beating it. These players do not deserve any more than a single chance to change their ways because of the fact it is not the 2nd time they've hacked, its the 2nd time they've been caught.

    I believe the biggest argument I've seen against a hacking 2nd permaban is the strain it puts on the upper administration (currently 2 people). The easiest and most clear cut solution to this is allowing admins to handle hacking 2nd permabans. I believe that the ability to determine hacking based upon evidence should be a requirement of admins, and one that (in my opinion) every single one of our current admins is capable of because either they already know how or are intelligent enough to learn from the other admins and moderators on the staff team. If that does not work there are other solutions to the workload problem (more lead admins, only allowing a set of senior admins to handle 2nd hacking 2nd permabans, and possibly more that I have not thought of) so I personally do not think it is a big enough reason to not ban for 2nd hacking offenses.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
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