Trump Bans Trans People from Military Service

To be honest I don't see why this thread is a thing right now.
It's not useful in any way shape or form nor does it change anything.

Just a place for angry people to scream at each other because they dare have different views of the world I guess.
"But Smusha, what if people want to discuss a certain topic or gain valuable insight regarding said topic from other members?"
I am sure there are better places (both online and irl) where you can do exactly that.
Here the only insight and opinions you are going to get are "Trans people are mentally disabled hehe xdxdxdxd" and "You deserve to burn in Hell if you don't support the LGBTQ+. Bet you're a racist and a nazi too!"

To be honest I think there are a lot of way more important things happening in the world right now than whether or not trans people can join the U.S. military.
There are places in this world, right now as we speak, where people don't have actual rights or access to the most basic or resources needed to live a fulfilling happy life.

I've seen people getting rejected because they had a flat foot but I don't see any outrage erupting from that. I've seen people get rejected because they had asthma but you don't see anybody complaining about that.
Those are all petty things and I truly believe that any army has the right of selecting their soldiers. After all, the very essence of military training consists of turning recruits into blank slates which then will be trained according to the country they are serving.
The individual soldier, his wishes, likes or dislikes are not taken into account.
It's no secret that soldiers are property and nothing more.Once you become a soldier you become a resource.
Sure, it sounds bad when seeing it from our perspective but world leaders and generals are not us and we are not them.


So after all I don't see why rejecting trans people would be any different, it's not like the army loses on a lot of people either. They are a minority to begin with and even fewer will want to join the military.
It's a strategic decision.

You need to remember that joining an army is not just a right.(If it's a right to begin with). Being in the military ultimately involves protecting your fellow allies as well as your country. It all boils down to engaging and neutralizing hostiles is extremely dangerous environments.
I think most people that are getting pissed at this decision have probably never been in one such situation and I don't really see anybody asking or caring about the opinion of your average trooper.
It's easy to talk about what you think is right and wrong when your life is not (or probably has never been) in such danger constantly.
It's even funnier considering that most people protesting for LGBTQ+(and the rest of the alphabet and mathematical symbols) are also the ones which usually say that America needs to cut down on military funding,cease all it's operations and say that veterans are just glorified killers.
But when faced with this situation they get angered at the fact that they can't be part of their nation's military force(thing which they probably never would have done it he first place, they just need the right to be there I guess)

It never fails me how Americans can both brag and complain about their country to such extent, even though everything that happens in the country's bounds is decided by nobody but the Americans themselves.
I also am pretty sure that most of the people getting "offended" by this decision are doing so because they feel like they should be not because they actually are.
This whole special snowlake phenomena is getting blown out of proportion.

I don't support neither side of this discussion fully.
I only support what is logical and practical.
People's feelings and opinions can be(and are) clouded by a lot of things and are in no way shape or form logical most of the time.
I see where @Python~ stands in regards to all of this but I also see @daddynexxus 's point of view.
Neither of them are fully correct and neither of them have any right to go at each other's throats for thinking differently.
Nobody has the right to an opinion, they have the right to an informed opinion, nobody has the right to be ignorant.

Edit: After stating multiple times that I remain neutral on this subject and that I've read and that I've taken what both parties had to say into full consideration I somehow ended up getting attacked by both sides instead.Just goes to show how much of a "debate" this thread really is. Weird way of saying circlejerk lol

 

Neither python nor myself even responded to each other, really. lol

And, aside from that, your post was a jumbled fucking mess...

 

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-This is a response to the above post, it's not quoting properly.

 

It was me replying to the first quote using the second quote. Both of them being things that you have said previously. Together those quotes were supposed to imply that you missed the point I was trying to make by a mile and instead somehow decided to focus on something I didn't even say in the first place lol.
I never mentioned you guys replying to each other.
However you have both expressed your opinions and points of views and they were different from each other. That's why I have mentioned you two.(With him being the creator of the thread and you being the man with the different pov)

As a TL.DR : I used you two as examples since one is the original creator of this thread and one is on the opposite spectrum when it comes to the points he originally expressed.
Hope you at least managed to follow this.

That first sentence that you posted was completely besides the point.
As for the second one that you edited in later idk honestly.
It's paragraphed properly and it expresses my ideas in a clear and easy to read fashion while keeping neutral.
It might be a bit longer than it needs to be and that might indeed make it harder to follow, especially for people with weaker academic backgrounds.
But I think that you saying that it's jumbled fucking mess only shows that you aren't really used to reading in general.To me it looks like more of a personal issue.

 

Least nobody is getting triggered or being edgy anymore so job's done either way really.

 

Couple things:

1. The point of the thread is to submit your opinion on if Trump and his cabinet are right in his decision and why. Hell, maybe some people would even switch the side their on now given this information
It's called a debate. Look it up.

2. I don't live in other countries. What rights or lack of rights are in other countries is, frankly, irrelevant to me at the moment. As I see it, the current president is beginning to take away rights of minorities, which is no bueno for me
The blood diamond trade in Africa is also no bueno, but it doesn't directly affect me, hence why I didn't make a thread about it. You're free to do so if you find it important to you

3. If the individual soldier's likes and dislikes, and implied wants, are not taken into account, why then are the soldiers who want to be a different gender discriminated against? There's no good reason.

4. As of 2014, approx. 15,500 transgendered people were serving in the military. That number could have increase drastically in the last few years with the steps Obama took to give more rights to the LGBT community.
Either way, that's a lot of soldiers that can no longer be soldiers for whatever reason

5. Transgendered people want to serve. Not all want to serve, but we shouldn't revoke that right from them for no good reason other than prejudice.
As for "most people protesting for LGBTQ+ are also the ones which usually say that America needs to cut down on military funding,cease all it's operations and say that veterans are just glorified killers", that has no bearing on this argument whatsoever. I'm a liberal, and this isn't the case at all. For me anyway.
The fact is the president is not allowing a minority to do a thing which they would have done without a problem, and that's a red flag

6. As I recall, Hillary won the popular vote, so no, not everything, in fact nearly nothing, that happens within this country's bounds is decided by the people of America

7. "I also am pretty sure that most of the people getting "offended" by this decision are doing so because they feel like they should be not because they actually are."
You lost me at the end there, but I'm not a special snowflake. I'm a straight, white, middle-class male. I'm about as entitled as it gets, but I do support LGBT and several other organizations, and believe they, along with the rest of humanity, should be given the chance everyone else gets, including serving in the military and fighting for one's country.

Now to wrap it up, it doesn't seem like your comment was "useful in any way shape or form". It provided no new opinion and certainly no new facts. Nothing logical or practical, just saying you support that decision, whatever it is.
You squeezed in stereotypes of Americans, generalized people's opinions into crude remarks, made assumptions about those who support LGBT rights, and included comments that had no relevance to the topic.
It was uninformed, vague, and inferential, and it definitely seems like your feelings and opinions are clouded by a lot of things yourself.

 

I surely know what a debate is but whatever's going on here is surely not a proper one.

Since you are straight, white and middle class I don't see how this issue directly affects you either to be honest. As for the more important things going on in the world I believe that if your ship is sinking you need to patch the big holes first, not the small onces just because they happen to be in your cabin and the big ones are farther away.

How can you say that while saying that what happens in other countries is irrelevant to you just because it doesn't affect you.

Because being transgender affects a lot more things. Namely, what Smor has said on page 2.

That number is nothing compared to the total number of troops and "normal" people still allowed to serve.
And like I said before, people higher up only see the numbers, not the people.

"Without a problem". Again, see page 2 on this thread.
I know that you are a liberal and I never said that you have said any of those things or that all liberals think alike. But there have been people that have said that. I never even called the liberals out to begin with, you did kinda.
"The fact is the president is not allowing a minority to do a thing which they would have done without a problem, and that's a red flag".
When a president will do that 100% percent just because of the fact that they are a minority and with a lack of any other factors of evidence I will always be 100% on board with that idea my man.

Popular vote or not, Trump has also won by the vote of the American people. No other nation played a role in your elections as far as I am aware. My point still stands. (unless of course I am wrong, which I might be)

Again, I have not called you out on anything. The whole point of my response was to be neutral towards both sides.
I also support the LGBT movement and never said I did not. I will always support it until people belonging and identifying themselves as part of the previously mentioned categories will be able to live a completely normal life without any disturbances caused by their orientation.
But fighting for one's country is not a "normal life" by any means. Things are much more different there than they are here. And being transgender is much more different than just having a different sexual orientation.Being transgender has effects on the physical body as well as on the mind. And wars are obviously fought with both. Wars however aren't fought based on sexual orientation.

As for your ending statement I agree with you on some parts but disagree on some other.
My comment was useful in the way that it provided my opinion on this matter. This is after all, like you said, a debate. Any comment that supports a civil and informed point of view can be considered useful in a debate.(Again, maybe you should be doing some reading on what a debate should look like)
I do support this decision because it is backed up by evidence and the only real downsides are people's feelings getting messed with, something that is of little to no importance when we are talking about soldiers and military conflict.

As for this remark I know of the fact that I have said Americans do like to brag and complain a lot. It is true but at the same time it was uncalled for that is true, especially since my whole point was to be neutral. So that had no real place in my comment. You are correct regarding that.
Aside from that I don't see any other stereotypes that I purposefully "squeezed in" unless of course you identify yourself with them. I did generalize but that is to be expected since we are talking about the general views of people on this topic but never said that literally every single person thinks this or that. My assumptions about people that support the LGBT were not assumptions since I wasn't assuming. They were things I knew for a fact. Besides, as an LGBT supporter myself it would be pretty weird for me to make assumptions like that.
Comments that included no relevance to the topic, again, my comment about Americans was irrelevant but aside from that I don't really see anything else worth noting.
As for my feelings being clouded, of course they are. It is only natural. I did say "people's opinions" and I am part of said people. Never have I ever said that my opinions are the right ones. Hell, I could be wrong regarding pretty much everything I have said but I will always accept someone else's point of view instead of attacking him because his is different than mine. It seems that this time you were the one making assumptions about me Python.

Again fellas, I am with you on this one and I am with you when it comes to keeping everything civil.
I just didn't like the fact that this whole thread was just people rating daddy dumb because he had a different pov while the other's were backing each other up because they had a similar one to Python's.
To me it just didn't seem like it was a debate, it was more of a scream at each other while covering your ears the best you can contest.(Your list of warnings and bans for inappropriate behavior on our forums only goes to show that if anybody here doesn't know what a debate is that would be you.) EDIT: And you just got banned again 10 minutes after I posted this. You surely are one to lecture others on how a proper debate should look like.

And thus I rest my case.

 

FUN FACT:
There have been cases where Color Blind Individuals would be brought to War to scan an area and spot out Camouflage due to how they perceive colors differently.
I read it from somewhere but heres some links I got from Google that proves my point.

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilear...hat_at_one_time_the_us_army_used_color_blind/
http://www.wideopenspaces.com/can-color-blindness-make-better-hunter/
http://discovermagazine.com/2006/mar/colorblind-kakhi-brown-cambridge/

 

As a Trump supporter myself, I believe this decision will backfire on him. I see it as a slap in the face to the few LGBT supporters he had. It's pretty obvious that he chose to reward Mike "LGBBQ" Pence for tie-breaker vote for the Senate to discuss healthcare reform.
Unfortunately, just like the travel ban, it is within his Presidential power to exclude whoever he wants from the military since he is Commander-in-Chief.

 

God does not exist. Something that does not exist cant really bless anything.

 

Did you expect something else from the southern version of annoying orange?

 

I wouldn't reccommend bringing in religion to this...

But to end it early, no one can fully prove or disprove that God does or does not exist.

 

honest opinions incoming, brace yourselves /idpol/

I've never thought the west would be so goddamn naive and chimp out on a subject like this. How do I say this, I literally can't even right now.
You are picking people to fight for your wars, not spread love and peace through gay parades in Middle East. You are picking people that will get shot and beheaded by ISIS at some point, and respond as the form of government forces in case of a disaster that puts millions of lives on the line.
There are many "army gays", and that is something inevitable if you live near that many sausages for years on end. It's just what it is and what happens.

People are going crazy over solidifying one of the most important subjects in soldiership, that being discipline. The millitary of USA stopped handing out assault rifles to mentally ill people quite a while ago, and there is nothing wrong with applying the said law to the same people, in form of deluding yourself that you are a member of the opposite gender, and most likely doing it for the attention in 2017 cultural marxist alternate reality USA.

I do indeed believe that trump is a shitter [ashkenazi survivor lovely friend], but I hate the opposition putting up arguements like this.
This is.... how.... Just fucking how can someone criticize Trump over something like THIS. This is dumber than Covfefe. I just cant. He is just doing what a niBBa gotta do.

tl;dr he finally made me proud after months, and opposition is chimping out and this is just kekworthy. I thought it was over after his Israel visit, turns out it wasnt :3

 

If I get this right, you're saying that all Transgender people are mentally ill.

http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

They're not all mentally ill. Just like not all fucking Muslims are terrorists, just like not all kids are immature, just like many thing there's an area of distinction. You let them serve because they are not mentally ill, they're patriots, and they're American. You get as many human beings to defend this mess of a country as you can but it aint gonna happen with the trump in office. President Trump's All

You wanna know the last time we absolutely wanted to fuck, detain, outright ban an entire group of people? Look back at WWII when we put all people of japanese american descent internment camps. C o n g r a t z

Im aware you're probably going like "omg i cant even rn this nigga is so autistic he gotta be put in a camp too" but nigga you even called the asshole a shitter like hello?? NEED I GOTTA SAY THIS PUSSY SAID HE SUPPORTED LGBT AND GOES BACK ON THEM LIKE HIS EX WIVES??

 

"Just like not all fucking Muslims are terrorists, just like not all kids are immature"
This is not true. Im living in an Islamic majority country, and so far I can say everyone would behead an american at any given chance. Also, the second point was just to defend kids from deviantart. All kids are immature, hence they are fucking KIDS.

"they're patriots, and they're American"
If they had a slight sense of patriotism, they wouldnt just suck up the Rabbi's propaganda that has been shoved so far up their asses and started coughing out shitty opinions. Do you honestly, actually believe trannies and other sorts of idpol SJW's would run to the frontlines at a moments notice? thats not how it fucking works.

"You wanna know the last time we absolutely wanted to fuck, detain, outright ban an entire group of people? Look back at WWII when we put all people of japanese american descent internment camps"
What? That is what YOUR ACTUAL PATRIOTS WANTED TO DO. This action was justified can be justified even in 2017 since PRISONERS OF WAR WERE CONSIDERED WAR SPOILS BY YOUR FELLOW PATRIOTS.

"Im aware you're probably going like "omg i cant even rn this nigga is so autistic he gotta be put in a camp too" but nigga you even called the asshole a shitter like hello?? NEED I GOTTA SAY THIS PUSSY SAID HE SUPPORTED LBGT AND GOES BACK ON THEM LIKE HIS EX WIVES?? "
There are no perfect leaders. Every leader is a contrast. I support Trump in his office term, just because he is there as a consequence of democracy. Plus, he doesn't have to immediately suck a hung black dick after calling out that he is pro-LGBT. I consider LGBTBBQ+7*-/ as a lifestyle, and not some sort of special identification that you could be proud of.

Don't worry, you are just a naive Westerner that is trying to get into politics (who happens to not know jackshit about war/millitary and conflicts). I fully understand, as you are defending tranny rights without getting paid. That's just who westerners are. But I suggest you to join the right side of the history rather than wrong. I'm up for further debate if you have stronger points.

 

It was a mistake to say anything to you because you fucking said this

Since when can you speak for your entire country? Is your motto "Fuck America, We kill you all, Aloha snackbar." Christ my nigga you want to kill me? come and get me fucker better do it now since our military was just weakened.



Come back to me when you know how to debate

Also tell that to the 15,000 ex-soldiers current transgender individuals who were in the US Army.



Also do I need to remind everyone he's doing this for cost issues when the cost issues are so minute.

 

I guess I'll give my opinion.

I support LGBTQ+, but I don't fully support them being allowed to serve in the army. I say this because people with Gender Dysphoria have incredibly high suicide rates, depression, anxiety, etc. (Many regret getting the surgery and end up depressed/commiting suicide.)

@Smor has already cited this, and all of these reasons play a part in the reasoning of why I somewhat support the ban. Their emotions can cloud their performance more than your average soldier, and that isn't good for anyone.

I personally have no issues with transgenders whatsoever, I just feel like you need to be in a decent mental state to serve. (Not saying they are fucking retarded or mentally ill btw.)

 

Then you let those who arent mentally ill, retarded, have you, serve in some capacity.

But the best thing is they're not allowed to serve because of a minute cost issue which is even more hilarious.

 

"Since when can you speak for your entire country? Is your motto "Fuck America, We kill you all, Aloha snackbar."

Come back to me when you know how to debate "
I suggest you to do some googling on opinions of the middle east on America. You do become an anti-american when they are the #1 ally of your biggest enemy since the existence of Islam, Jews. Say whatever you want about this, it IS 2017 and the jews are STILL the archenemy of muzzies. Was that so hard to swallow?
"Ohh, Stray! #Notallmuslims hate the jews!!!!!!! Some are different!!!!"
Cease and desist your ignorance. It is common knowledge that "one who doesn't hate the jews is not a true Muslim". Tough cookies, huh? It is what it is, im sorry.
According to general public, you aren't a true muslim if you dont hate the jews and COINCIDENTALLY the ones that don't hate them are from tumblr. Really makes you think, huh?

Really got me with that double 2008 forumemoji combo. Also, I doubt you can tell me to return when I learn to debate, hence you pulled out "It was a mistake to say anything to you because you fucking said this" Wow dude, you are clearly a better DebateMeister(TM) than me and you sure showed me!

"Also tell that to the 15,000 ex-soldiers current transgender individuals who were in the US Army. "
They are actual patriots, because they WENT there, FOUGHT, and RETURNED alive and became transgender due to identity issues and actual post traumatic stress disorder. You would know how people changed due to crisis and sorrow if you actually lived though it. Oh wait, you are just a liberal american (sick ad-hominem alert)

Their patriotism is not related to their new transgender identity, it is related to the fact that they are combat veterans and/or serviced the millitary. Being a mentally ill tranny does NOT make you a patriot at all.

time to place some bets
I bid 20 memes for 5 dumb ratings on this post.