State of the server.

My mentality has always been to target and kill everyone.

I posted that on January 23rd.

I don't do PvP because I'm bored or because I'm rich. I do it because it's what I always intended to do.

Also, when I have the ability to give myself advantages such as diamond gear and having likeminded allies, why wouldn't I take advantage of that? As the bringer of death, I still dislike dying.

 

Actually, I don't have a problem with PVP, just it's more that I feel it has a time and place. When I'm trying to make my base pretty is not the time or the place, and yet ironically, my base has been home to a couple larger battles. Maybe I should have built an arena instead of a vaguely castle like building.

 

Yes, they would be at this point with or without premium keys. The issue with getting to this point is more to do with some weaknesses in the economy system, some of which have already been fixed. As for the starter kit with diamond armor, that point is nearly completely moot because now everyone who's been on the server for a while has it. I agree the starter kit disrupted PVP for the first couple days, but not really afterwards.

 

So @Dexter, basically, if you didn't join in the first day or two of the server, you're not allowed to get settled in? That's petty ridiculous logic there. This isn't some Rust server where the server wipes and resets every week or two. And this isn't an issue of me being upset about being killed in my claim, or that I can be killed by other players. I'm upset that there's an overwhelming amount of people who are buying into a playstyle where they kill people who aren't interested in PVP numerous times over, and also kill new players to the server when they're trying to get started. The latter is griefing in my opinion, but even if it isn't considered griefing by the staff, it sure as hell is toxic gameplay. I'd equate to people on Rust who run around with full armor and automatic weapons who run around and kill the 'nakeds', or the freshly spawned people, in Rust. There's no reason for it whatsoever, and you're just being a dick when you're playing that way. And while it isn't 'against the rules', it's a trend that is getting worse, staff members are a part of it (which I think is setting a really bad example, and gives off a negative impression for the server/community), and none of the people involved are willing to acknowledge any kind of problem with it. The only thing they can respond with is "it's a part of the game" or "it isn't against the rules", which shows that they aren't even paying attention to the issue I'm having.


You can see this very thing with irritating's response, which I've quoted below:

Rather than address the problem that I've outlined of a toxic community/playstyle taking over on the MC server, you're telling me to report players and that there's changes coming to PVP. Okay, what does that have to do with what I've brought up? I'm calling out the people who are involved in toxic behavior on the servers, some of which are staff, and the only thing you can tell me is that they can only do it during nighttime?

And did you didn't even seem to read any of the actual details of my posts, because I'm not the one who was getting started/getting settled in. I've been on the server since launch, and have seen this kind of behavior numerous times. But a NEW player who joined the server yesterday had to experience it first hand, and get killed numerous times, both with me and elsewhere, why he was trying to gather materials and start up on a base. So thanks for taking the time to actually read my response and give a non-cookie cutter answer. /s

 

I would like to mention I have a home set at the northwest edge of the world. I'm more than happy to allow someone to TP to me there so they can start building a base far away from the center where the commotion tends to take place.

 

I'm not really sure your hostility is warranted here. I'd suggest you take a breath and try to view the problem from another PoV. Having been a staff member yourself, you should know that it's not possible to control the actions of every player, and that people can be jackasses.

Moving on, I responded to your one post (the one I quoted above if you missed it..?). In that post you described a scenario in which someone you were with and yourself were killed repeatedly. I didn't bother to pull up your play time to check if you've been here from launch, nor have I noticed you in-game when I do get a chance to actually play, so how could I have known that was the fact? Either way, that's irrelevant.

What IS relevant is that if you were the victim of spawnkilling, you could have reported those toxic players and it would have been dealt with. What is ALSO relavant in my response is the fact that PVP will be limited soon to give people a chance to gather resources while not at threat of death. You mentioned playing Rust. You also mentioned you're down for losing items; so what exactly is your problem? People kill each other. People can be assholes. We have rules in place, that while not perfect, cover the single scenario you gave in the post I replied to. What else would you like me to do?

Edit: I just realized this is your thread, and that I haven't read everything in it yet, I responded from the point I was tagged, which is a point where the thread was a bit off topic. My apologies there, I'll read the rest when I'm not on mobile.

 

Here is my question more pertaining to the thread's focus:
Are we really going to be ok with the mindset of, no matter what happens and how it happens, it's the victims fault? That if they become a target, for whatever reason, my own personal part in this aside, that everyone should just be fine with this and move on? Adjusting PvP doesn't fix the massive amounts of toxicity that stem in large part from many of the staff of the Serious Servers. I know a lot of people came to the servers expecting some form of community on the server, and what they got instead was mods who individually steal, kill, and loot more than any other players, including MCsniper/Mankamal's gang. The attitude of "Weak fear strong" should be in a game where skill determines strength, not numbers, be those numbers from enchantments or bodies, and where any dissenting voice is silenced with almost an immediate visit to your base or a bounty on your head.

 

I understand you are upset with the state of the server as is, and one of the devs has expressed multiple times of how he plans to update the PVP combat relatively soon with some fixes to please a wider audience, but I don't understand why you feel the need to keep on hammering the same point over and over again this past week. It's gotten quite repetitive, and to be honest, redundant due to the planned changes.

 

No one on the thread said "no matter what happens and how it happens, it's the victims fault". Nor is it even close to true. However, the points that have been brought up stating it is the "victim's" fault (using "victim" loosely), it absolutely is their fault. I see people complaining "I TPA'd them to me and they brought their friends" and all I see is they chose to trust the wrong person. Trust is part of SeriousMC as much as it is a part of SeriousTTT.

Again: I've been on the server for a while now and I've never seen a scenario I would consider toxic coming from staff from various divisions of SGM. That being said, I still have problems with your insistence that it's their fault for coming to your base.

I've built my base in such a way that no one can kill me while in the base - I built my base away from commotion and so far I have only had 1 break in attempt. I'm more than happy to help you find a new location for your base and even help you build one. There just appears to be a disconnect where players are getting the idea that their base is somehow permanent and can't be abandoned.

 

I'm fully aware that staff members can't control the actions of all players on the server. But they are role models for the community, and if they behave in a certain way, then everyone else is going to feel free to do so as well.

As for me calling you out personally, you didn't read my posts in this thread. You were addressing me as if I was a new player who was being killed repeatedly while trying to build a new base, and seeing as that isn't the case, and I never communicated that, that shows me that you didn't read into what I posted carefully. And if you're going to advise me on how to approach this problem, I'd expect that you would have given my position a solid read through. But I digress; back to the main point.


This isn't Rust. This isn't TTT. There can be comparisons made, surely, but they are different games. Nowhere in here have I expressed that PVP needs to be removed, that I was griefed and want the offenders banned; nowhere have I talked about claims, or forcing the staff to do something. What I've repeatedly said I'm upset about, and what numerous people still seem to be missing even though this is probably the 4th time I've said it, is that the culture of the server is extremely toxic. There's so much bickering back and forth related to PVP, and people killing each other, and there's a lot of incidents where people are killing certain players repeatedly, who have no interest in PVPing to begin with, and that kind of behavior is ruining the server for me, and many others given how many have chimed in and agreed with my posts. And, like I already said, these people don't even stop to help someone new get acquainted.

So, in my opinion, something needs to change outside of just the 'mechanics' of the game and PVP. It boils down to the way the community is on the MC server right now. There's hardly any trust or cooperation outside of little cliches, and non-PVPers typically just stick to themselves/hide in their bases, because anyone else will basically just kill you on sight.

I know I said this isn't Rust, but I want to make one more point back to it. Rust is a great game; I love the feeling of playing in a fully hostile setting where you're always on edge, and it creates such an interesting dynamic between players, of fight or flight, of raiding bases and constant PVP. Don't get me wrong, I love that kind of setting.

But this isn't Rust. This is Minecraft, which I expected to be more light-hearted, with more focus on building, creating communities, managing an economy, and exploring. But there's no community outside of people killing each other, and the people who aren't interested in that are forced to hole up and hide.


That's really all I can say. I'm not looking for mechanical changes to the features of the server; I really don't know if those would help the problems I'm seeing. Instead, I'm making a plea for people to stem this behavior of just rampantly killing other players who aren't interested in PVP, or at least using some sense and being less toxic about it in terms of killing people repeatedly, and killing new/significantly less established players.

 

Actually they have said that multiple times, maybe not explicitly on this thread, but in the pm. open chat and other threads that I have read through/commented on. Lone Wanderer pretty much sums up my own opinions about it above, and while I might propose some mechanical changes that some people disagree with, I am met with almost exclusive hostility from the staff, to the point where I know of three separate members who have all put bounties on my head, and several others who try and kill me wherever and however possible.
I was trying to speak generally above, but if we just focus on what has happened to me personally, it is still bad. I am openly encouraged by the staff to be killed at any opportunity. People are building massive pillars outside of my base that reach as high as the upper limit, and if I try and take it down, someone in god-equipment comes to try and kill me. I have already destroyed several traps outside of my base. I have been killed through a half-slab while AFK inside my base by ex-staff who's only reason for killing me could be to try and make me lost more equipment. Unless I go outside with invisibility on, I see another player coming at me within half an hour of me starting to dig. And the only response I get from 90% of staff is either indifference or outright hostility to my complaints.
And moving? Not really an option. I have already spent a few dozen hours just building up my base and excavating the desert in which I live. I like to build grandiose structures. If I am forced to move everytime someone discovers my base and shares my coords, I will never be able to do anything else.

 

I keep bringing up the same points in public eye because I don't like having to deal with constant attacks in PM individually.

 

If you have seen my base, you would know that moving would basically equal to tossing away work that began the moment the server was open to public use. To start anew is unthinkable and not feasible. I imagine there are others with bases that feel the same as I, like Silent, on this matter.

 

Half the server wants survival and half the server wants pvp, can't really win.

Although, those who like pvp might be less inclined to go headhunting everyone so often if you know..... there was an actual survival aspect to the server.

 

Why are you complaining about being killed? If you're an easy kill, people are going to kill because its fun. It's not disgusting behaviour, its a video game. Please grow up.

 

Welcome to the SGM Factions server without factions.

 

Can I step in for a bit even though I'm an utter rookie in minecraft and had 0 hours in this server.

From all the threads I've seen, a number of the players are requesting for No PvP feature in claims but the upper admins of minecraft and devs said no. Correct?

So if that's the case, would a big city that imposes No PvP and had multiple plots for players to rent would help to ease the issue?
Once you leave the city, you will be on your own and PvP would be enabled outside the city regardless you're in a claimed land or not.

Another suggestion from me would be a party system whereby you can invite players to join your party or vice versa. Anyone in the party would have friendly fire off, hence they cannot damage each other. So this could possibly alleviate the TPA issue whereby you could have doubts in the person who is teleporting to you as you can be killed right on the spot.
Just make sure you setup a party with the person who's teleporting over to prevent backslash and raiding.

One more thing, TPA in one's claim should require the permission from the land's owners regardless of who you are.
For example, A owns a land. B managed to convince A to teleport over. B plans to raid A's land with his friends. Casually, his friends would request TPA to his location. In order for the TPA to go through he would need the permission from A as well. This again, should prevent what I consider TPA loopholers.

Tell me your honest opinions on these.

Ideally this could work on other servers but this server is entitled to "Survival" mode, we need to understand the point of view from the devs.

Striking a balance between the two is tough. Give them time and plus, they are revamping the PvP mode, so hold on to your wooden pitchforks(melt them).

My few cents from an outsider perspective and hopefully they can bring this into their discussion table.

TL;DR
1. Party system (Disable friendly fire among party members, in another word - No PvP)
2. TPA in one's claim should require the permission from the land's owners regardless of who you are.
3. Big ass safe city with reserved plots for players (PvP disabled)

 

To address some of these:

1. This is already implemented in the server. You can not PvP against party members. And this is actually a great point that hasn't been discussed as far as I'm aware. As far as being scared about bringing someone in to your claim - party up. You can't PvP while in a party. Granted- I don't believe there is a cool down once you leave a party. This should probably be implemented. I think @Rick experienced someone leaving/kicking him out of a party and then ganging up on him.

2. I've written and erased my response on this one a few times because I'm so conflicted about it. If a base is secure- the only way for conflict to happen is if a non-pvp player trusts someone who then stabs them in the back. This is a common, and frankly useful tactic for PvP players. However- I think if the PvP players want compromise from the non-pvp players then there needs to be some compromise on both ends. So I can get behind this one.

3. This sounds like creative to be honest. The largest issue with creative is that it has a 50 vote count, or premium account requirement (or to be TP'd by a player with access). So if this is something that is implemented - then maybe those guidelines should be relaxed.

I have another idea too related to number three. How about we do a community event where we do build this city- in the survival section, with a set of users recruited as builders- a build team. This isn't made up of just staff, or devs- but regular, trusted, players. A section of the survival map is dedicated just to building this city and it is non-PvP. This build team works together to build this non-pvp, safe city- only the build team can build here until the city is finished and it is ready for plots to be reserved. This not only provides an answer for those that do not want PvP- but creates an event to help bring the community together. This is probably an incredibly optimistic idea- but I think if done properly it could be beneficial.

 

Spoiler: er

 

I disagree with the no PvP between parties members. You could just pile in and 5v1 someone, without anyone taking damage from each other, which is just dogshit.
#2 is even worse, you should be able to TPA regardless of location, plot or no plot.
#3 is bad too. Players should learn how to SURVIVE in the SURVIVAL server. If they don't want to SURVIVE then they can play CREATIVE.