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Discussion in 'Archived Minecraft Discussion' started by Lone Wanderer, Feb 7, 2017.
Totally secure from dicks and assholes.
The thing is that, the goal as a T in TTT is to kill innos. The goal of an inno is to find and kill Ts
I don't play Rust or Ark, but as far as my knowledge of Rust goes, you can make your base extremely strong, and with traps, which is a core part of Rust gameplay
As far as Minecraft goes, there is a completely different set of things that should/could be achieved aside from PvP (TTT is entirely PvP, so obviously nobody should get upset when a mod kills them, unless it's RDM)
Original Minecraft survival was about keeping your food supply up, crafting tools, weapons and safe places to be while mobs are out, and gathering materials to beat the game. Not PvP.
This is why a lot of players are upset with PvP. It wasn't what survival initially entailed. It wasn't even announced that the server would have PvP until they updated it suddenly
I understand why people are upset, especially those who are friendly and want the thrill of survival, minus the PvP hoardes and cliques
Oh boy did I have fun creating TNT Minecarts to loophole out of an Old MC Server that blocked the placement of TNT. Create yourself a nice ole tower around whatever land you wanted to excavate, make a downward hill rail systems, press a button and watch the TNT Minecarts ROLL OUT and blow up bits of land. Explosions didn't fuck up the server's claims either.
In response to what Falcor said. Player skill is a much bigger aspect in the average gunfight in TTT than in Minecraft PvP, even with some of the top tier guns like the AK and SL8. In Minecraft it's almost all gear. The reason people are mad about PvP isn't because they don't wanna be killed at all, but because when they are it was because they were helpless against someone who had better gear or someone not alone. The comparison to TTT isn't a good analogy because you can do something to have a chance to defend yourself in TTT even if you have a worse gun.
I think that's the point; having just started on the server, I have pretty poor gear; I've been very skittish in my movement because I know that if I was to encounter someone, I know I have absolutely no chance at all because either I'll get destroyed by someone in fully enchanted diamond gear, or they'll just get their friends to /tpa to them and I'll get ganked by multiple people. Or maybe both.
From what I've seen so far, the geared people barely fight each other, they just gank newer players or find ways to break into people's homes to kill people while they don't expect it. The PvP as it is is pretty toxic and I'll do all I can to avoid it.
Vanilla Minecraft with multiplayer has no restrictions on PvP, and additionally no way to protect user builds from griefing.
As far as enabling PvP, it was always enabled, just not inside claims. PvP inside claims was enabled to prevent the one-way PvP exploits that stemmed from it. This included pouring lava on people inside a claim, with no option of retaliation (you can't place your own lava, or even attack back) and shooting with a bow from a claim to kill a user outside any claims.
Honestly I don't agree with sacrificing the safety of peaceful players to make it safer to attack people.
Obtaining evidence against exploitative killing is a bigger issue in my book.
It's looking like there'll be restrictions on when PvP happens soon, as there are a good handful of people who dislike PvP, but there's really no point in disabling it entirely because there are people who'd like to opt-out of a core gameplay feature.
Additionally, it's not just safer to attack people, it prevents people from being 100% safe while attacking others inside their claim; balancing the playing field.
I can say I'm really glad to see a thread like this. I've been saying a lot of the stuff that Lone Wanderer and Lawes have been saying for the longest time now, arguably the most outspoken against it, and I have become a target for just about every player on the MC server. I have see staff, current on other servers, current on MC, and previous, trick, lie, camp and do anything they can to try and kill me and steal my stuff/head. And the only response I ever get is that it's my own fault. This is not what I ever thought I would see on an SGM server, and it truly is disgusting.
Except you made an almost non-issue into an issue for literally everyone. Yes, someone CAN use that as an exploit. But chances are they won't, and even if they did, it is the easiest thing to walk out of bow-range. If they are camping out in front of your base on a claim, isn't that already against the rules? The only space that is remotely safe is spawn or market, both of which are bad options for people that have a bad computer, because people can swarm you from anywhere at anytime with the tpa system
I think the majority of your problem is that you expect the SGM server to fit your needs exactly. SGM was founded on a gamemode that utilizes lying, and deceptive methods to play properly (TTT), so I'm not quite sure what else you expected.
Players have only been using every advantage they have within the game to achieve their goals.
As far as being told things are your own fault, they absolutely are. Stop playing the victim, and play smarter. You've created reports and moaning threads based on TPA alone. That command is something you have control over entirely. Your base you have control over entirely. Your public distaste stems from your constant complaints, something you also have control over. Antagonizing people for playing the game in legit ways makes it hard to like you and a bigger target. If that wasn't enough, people who like to troll others get their satisfaction from getting a rise out of someone. You consistently give that rise and it feeds the trolls.
There are players who I've seen rise above this. @Amatsu namely dislikes PvP, but agrees there is a time and place. He also has adapted to how the server operates and has taken precautions with his land, and his TPA acceptance.
Adapting is surviving, and despite incoming changes for those who don't like PvP, it won't change how people play the game.
So is making a secure claim..
And a secure claim. And in the near future, during the day with PvP toggled off.
Since this was done, people were doing it, and to walk out of bow range is saying "Maybe the user of the bow wont be good enough or understand angles well enough to snipe people" It's quite a distance to run out of bow range.
Spawnkilling =/= spawncamping. One requires killing, one requires just existing in a place. Want to suggest spawn/claim camping to be against the rules?
I'm on a walmart laptop, I can go to spawn or market without issue, and once again tpa requires mutual consent. You cannot be swarmed by people tpa-ing to you unless you /tpaccept or /tpyes. However they can swarm to you using /spawn or /warp market in that case you leave.
Furthermore, if you're being SPAMMED /tpa requests you can ask a moderator for help.
If you actually think its fine for a player to be completely unable to play the game beyond a narrow window, then I am seriously questioning why you decided to become a dev. My only wish in this server is to see it become an enviroment where everyone can have fun with more than a handful of play-styles to dictate their actions.
I played a lot of Rust over winter break with my cousin, so believe me, I'm fully onboard with the idea of getting killed and losing all of your stuff. This server, and MC in general, are far in a way a step down from what people in Rust will do to you and your base; I'm not complaining necessarily in that sense, though. But I will also say that this isn't Rust, and this isn't the same community as Rust.
My problem with what's occurring is that people's "PVP" is extending into toxic gameplay. I personally was killed 4 times within the period of about 10 minutes in the same area, and that's not including how many times the guy I was helping out died. I wasn't killed by the same person each time, but I know they were in pairs, and I know they aren't stupid and can read chat. So despite this other guy and myself dying already, and despite it being in the context of me helping another player who is new, all 4 of them felt it appropriate to kill me. Honestly, as I look back, the latter 3 kills on me should have been griefing, considering I was killed after re-spawning with no gear of any kind, and not posing a threat/running near any of them.
But that's beside the point: back to toxic gameplay. You see it on the TTT servers all the time, whether it's players targeting one player in particular, killing innocents for stupid reasons (like them getting shot at and killing the shooter, who would end up being innocent; you know they were being shot). I could go on and on listing examples, many of which are "within the rules". But that hasn't stopped players from being warned/punished for toxic gameplay. And regardless of players, if staff were doing that kind of stuff on TTT? I'd be horrified to see any TTT staff member playing in a toxic manner on the server, or promoting a toxic atmosphere.
Relating that to MC: there was probably* no rules broken when they killed me and this new player numerous times. But the issue I'm having is that culture on the MC server is one where fully geared players roam around and repeatedly gank players who have far less/worse gear, or who are simply minding their own business in their bases doing whatever. This has extended to me in an extreme case, where this behavior trumped supporting/helping a new player and setting a positive image/experience on the server for them, and it made it significantly worse knowing that all 4 of them are staff members here at SGM, including one of them being an MC moderator. I'm honestly dumbfounded that there's staff members who are defending this as a fully appropriate situation and seeing nothing wrong with what occurred.
Still waiting for my gaming laptop to get back from the shop to check Minecraft out, but you as a player can punish the 'gotta kill them all' mentality easily with traps. Create trap houses filled with pitfalls and lava, intricate security systems that feature alarms and pistons to secure all entrances if an intruder is detected, create fake out structures filled to the brim with treachery and punish whoever tries to grief them. Make them second guess whatever or not they want to try raiding you.
You protected your base against one threat, the mobs. Now just protect them against the other threat.
I see at least 2 people circling by base every hour trying to kill me. The moment I step outside, I am almost always attacked. The very fact that I make a post in a thread talking about how I am attacked anytime I do anything, and the very first reaction is to have three staff tell me how I'm wrong is exactly the point I'm making. This is one of the least friendly, most toxic servers I have ever seen, and it seems every person that was part of staff justifies it with "It's part of the game." No. I've seen servers that didn't have this environment and didn't even have claims. You are steadily narrowing the playerbase, and the inability to accept that there might be a problem only adds to people's frustrations.
This is being addressed as several have mentioned where the PvP system is being revamped.
Here. Is. The. Thing. In TTT, you can't just ask a staff not to kill you when they're T, and you can't ask them to 'stay still' so you can kill them if you're T (Provided if they sense a threat, know if someone is proven, and such). In TTT, there is a wide variety of rules and a variety of ways to break them, or loophole around them. You have multiple TTT servers in need of a whole LOT more staff than this one single MC Server.
Wasn't this started because of how MC Staff should represent themselves? Why did it all of a sudden go BACK to the whole PvP 'Election'? Survival is the one of the big main GOALS, it's quite literally you against the world (with the exception of non-hostile mobs). PvP has been enabled since the start and it was enabled OUTSIDE of claims, everyone had a 'safe haven' they could live in without the fear of intrusion/death from other players. With PvP in claims enabled abruptly, the difficulty in surviving spiked and those who felt safe in their claims now have to go the extra length to fortify it AND be able to have enough gear to defend themselves.
The world is locked in a barrier set at 15K blocks in all directions, the more people that join and regularly play, the increased chance of an encounter. Since first logging in, regardless of the PvP conditions, you had a certain 'time limit' to find a place to call home, build the house, and collect stuff before you would eventually run into someone or someone finds your base.
Like it or not, theres going to be a time you'll have to face another player rather than a mob. PvP in claims or not, you had to venture out sometime to find resources or to just explore.
As far as the rules are written right now, continuous spawn killing is not legal, and can be reported. I'm sorry to hear that it happened to you, and I encourage you to report it and bring forth whatever evidence you can, the rest can be supplemented by the logs. If there's a staff member involved in this (especially a Minecraft one) I encourage you to report it even more-so.
Moderators on the Minecraft server have been somewhat limited in what they can do, but that'll be something we work on moving forward to increase the chances a staff member can actually help out in situations like this. Additionally, as it has been mentioned by a few other people, there'll be changes to pvp soon, namely 'pvp times' that coincide with the day/night cycle. This is something I have to write myself as it's going to be fairly unique to our servers, but I've gotta finish a few other things first. I'm hoping by this weekend I can finish this up, to give players with less gear a wider opportunity to get gear and materials without the threat of death by better off players looming over them.
Again, I'm sorry to hear you were run into the ground by other people repeatedly, that's not my idea of fun. Hopefully you were able to establish a solid base eventually to use as shelter.