Should denied ban appeals get locked instantly?

Discussion in 'TTT Discussion' started by Dani, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Dani

    Dani Impersonating Staff VIP

    Of course the answer is "yes" in cases where the OP is obviously just trolling or spamming, but I mean in regular cases.

    What often happens is this: When someone makes a ban appeal, they often argue their case and try to defend themselves. Then a staff member comes along and gives counter arguments, denies the appeal, and locks the thread instantly, thereby having had the last word and/or laugh.

    I personally think that sometimes, some points need to be clarified and the banned person should have a chance to respond to the mod's reasoning (which they never ever got a chance to do).

    What I'm talking about specifically is a case like this thread: https://www.seriousgmod.com/threads/hongos-appeal.51123/#post-539157

    RDM #1 in particular needed to be talked out in a bit more detail. Hongo claims that it was GBA, but the mod's response to the ban appeal does not even mention GBA at all or tries to argue against it in any way. The way I see it, there are valid arguments that would show the OP that GBA didn't apply in this case and that the ban was justified, but there was no attempt to lay out said arguments.

    If the thread hadn't been locked, Hongo could have again asked, "But why wasn't it GBA?" and the moderator could have responded accordingly, cleared everything up, and taught Hongo some of our rules in more detail. If the discussion keeps going for some reason and goes nowhere or gets too insulting or personal, then the thread can be locked. Or, best case scenario, if the banned party ends up agreeing to the ban or doesn't say anything for a while.

    Some people might say, "Well, if the banned person wants to discuss the case in some more detail, they should start a forum conversation with the mod who banned them", but I don't see why it can't just be public and transparent. The only advantage to locking the thread this soon is, in my opinion, to just get the report over with and shut the other person up, and hope they just sit out their ban.

    Obviously I am right about this so please lock this thread before anyone can make counter arguments.

    Just kidding. What do you think about this? What other some other advantages/disadvantages of locking ban appeal threads so soon?
     
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  2. RhazhBash

    RhazhBash Professional button presser VIP

    Before I write this I'm going to mention that I haven't read the deal with Hongo and I don't plan to. This response is to the topic in general and not that specific ban. I'm not going to voice any opinion on whether he deserves to be banned.

    Nearly every appeal is cut and dry. Most of the time there isn't any doubt that a player broke a rule and got banned, so the decision on whether to unban is entirely in the hands of the staff member who banned them. Situations like Hongo's are the exceptions and not the rule.

    The majority of ban appeals are over once the mod decides to approve or deny it, and the only time someone should keep pushing after that decision is if they can prove the ban was unjust. If they can there's only one person that can help them, and that person is the mod's admin. Public discussion of the decision isn't necessary because anyone else is irrelevant to the situation (Sometimes witnesses can be helpful but this is rare). It's the same reason people can't post on reports/appeals they aren't involved with. If they weren't involved it's none of their business. Because of this there's no reason for the appeal to stay open when they can contact an admin in private.
     
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  3. Lordyhgm

    Lordyhgm Karma drain Administrator VIP

    Ask the admin, Hongos asked me to look at and I'll get round to it when I can, but yeah a lil explanation eases things
     
  4. Xproplayer

    Xproplayer VIP Silver

    I mean theres no good way to have it auto lock after a period of time, I'd say keep as is and unlock when requested by one of the parties involved.
     
  5. Zypther

    Zypther #SuitUp VIP Bronze Iron

    Keep it locked, make it a rule to have staff members link forum convos or some other way to contact. If something is brought up in private that needs to be discussed upon and shown to the public it will.
     
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  6. Timo654

    Timo654 +1 my mod app VIP Silver

    yeah convos are a great way of asking more info about your ban

    [​IMG]

    still waiting for a response, but I think noob has just been busy.
     
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  7. Pacifist

    Pacifist Cold Hard Bitch Moderator VIP Bronze

    Given the nature of Ban appeals, I think the answer is yes. Ban appeals are meant to give people a chance to appeal any ban that was placed on them, and I think they get a lot of room to do that. Ban appeals are suppose to be handled quickly and the need to close them is a part of that I think. What I mean to say is this: having a ban appeal drag on because neither side can come to a point is an issue that would come up. Eventually, someone has to end it. If this were where the discourse ended i'd be upset with this, but as it stands there are other alternatives. The ban appeal is not the end of the road, you can always go up the chain of command to argue your case. You can even bring your case up to the community to get a wider perspective on the argument. It also looks pretty bad on a mod or an admin who closes appeals before they are ready to be.

    I think a better alternative is just to have administrators look over their moderator's appeals and make sure they aren't ending them before they need to be ended. Hell, a little bit more oversight in general could mean the difference between a good ban appeal and a bad one. Of course, it makes no difference to me one way or the other.
     
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  8. Phillisss

    Phillisss Banned

    Yes, The appeals have looked historically to have allowed a response to the mods evidence/questions and from flipping through some of them it is apparent that you can reach out to them for further questions. I don't have any personal experience with this communities ban appeal/request process but what I have mentioned seems to be a good direction to head.
     
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