Self-Defense Addition

Discussion in 'Rules and Protocol' started by BARTHOLOMEW, Jan 9, 2021.


Should killing someone who shot at you, without ammo, be considered self-defense ?

  1. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    10 vote(s)
  2. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    15 vote(s)
  1. Currently under the rules, if a player is out of ammo without realizing, and fires a shot at you (making the clicking noise), since they have not technically damaged you, you can't KOS them. The other day I was playing as detective, saw someone hiding behind a door in a hallway littered with bodies (clearly waiting for me to pass so they could shotgun me). I passed them, heard their shotgun click while they looked directly at me, and then I shot them. The player was a T, reported me and I got slain.

    A former staff member on at the time (I didn't recognize them so I can't remember who but they were legit) talked about how the rule is in place because a player could potentially remove their ammo as a joke and fire clicks at people, which I mean honestly sounds like something I'd do in a boring round, but I really can't think of a time I shot at someone or anyone has shot at me while out of ammo as a joke. I think the likelihood of a player being out of ammo and trying to attack you is a lot more likely than someone messing around. And regardless I think contextually you can usually tell if someone's joking versus actually trying to kill you and out of ammo, (for ex. if someone clicks more than once they're clearly joking, if they click once aiming at your head and run like they think they're been caught they're T), so if this was changed I don't feel like it would change gameplay for the most part. I feel like it's a similar thing to when someone who isn't T announces they're T as a joke and gets killed. Yeah it was a joke that got them killed but I feel like they've brought it on themselves in a similar way.

    I really think that if someone shoots DIRECTLY at you while they're out of ammo you should be able to shoot back. Since the player made an attempt to shoot at me, even while out of ammo, I think it should be self defense to kill for that. You shouldn't have to wait for the T to reload and shoot again to defend yourself if they just had taken a clear shot at you. The click sound exists for a reason. I have been killed several times for trying to obviously shoot someone while out of ammo, and until a few days ago I thought that was fair game. Since I'm only just hearing about it, and even the mod online had to look at the rules for clarification, this is a pretty unknown rule for the most part, and from experience it's ignored (I genuinely feel like most players on the server would have shot in that situation, having been shot every time I've been in that situation).

    It's a pretty uncommon situation but I really do think that rule's dumb, and since the situations uncommon enough I don't think it would be game ruining, or even game changing as I genuinely think it's an ignored rule. (Rightfully?)
    • Like Like x 2
  2. tz-

    tz- feelin it VIP Emerald

    we're too stupid here at SGM to implement this, sorry :)
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. Indy226

    Indy226 Banned VIP Silver

    At the very minimum wouldn't this be T baiting since u tend to look at people when shooting?
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Confusing Confusing x 2
  4. Do the staff tools tell when someone shoots without ammo? If not it'd be hard to justify in an RDM report that someone tried to shoot at you when they were out of ammo.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. Kythol

    Kythol ok Moderator VIP

    they don't
    • Informative Informative x 2
  6. Would it be difficult to add a way to check? I do not know shit about shit but if there really is no way at all that sucks
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
  7. +1 froggy upvote
  8. Indy226

    Indy226 Banned VIP Silver

    @Aquast i say that because someone is trying to shoot but obviously can't because they're out of ammo. So make it fall under T-Baiting.
    • Confusing Confusing x 2
  9. Aquast

    Aquast lordy was here :barefoot: VIP Bronze

    T-baiting is ... shooting. Not trying to shoot.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Indy226

    Indy226 Banned VIP Silver

    um, but isn't T-Baiting trying to shoot someone tho?
  11. Aquast

    Aquast lordy was here :barefoot: VIP Bronze

    Shooting towards someone.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. RyanHymenman

    RyanHymenman Conscript the women and kids Administrator VIP Silver

    I will be testing this later today to see if shots without ammo show up in any of our shot logs/deathscenes. If not, this will have to be denied. If they do, I’d like to discuss this in our next staff meeting (whenever that may be).
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Robyn

    Robyn Floof Moderator VIP Silver

    Can't we consider having @My Dime Is Up work on adding this to the shot logs section of f8? If the sound in game exists for trying to shoot with an empty mag then there should be a way to log it?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. RyanHymenman

    RyanHymenman Conscript the women and kids Administrator VIP Silver

    This could be possible, I’d have to have the code in front of me to answer that question. But I believe the core of shot logs revolves around the server registering an actual shot, while the clicking of the gun is just a sound effect triggered by trying to press +attack with an empty weapon. I will talk with dime tho to see if it is possible or a tangibly easy fix.

    TL:DR If it is easy, we will discuss it. Otherwise if it’s gonna take a lot of rewriting existing code, we will likely leave it as is
    • Like Like x 2