Report Staff/sNAppy-TurTle

Server: 66.150.188.73:27015

Time of Occurrence: 3:30 (Central Time Zone); Clue SE map; round 4 or 5

Reason for Report: Slayed me on the following map (Office round 2) for calling KOS on C4 placed at the start of the round that he was walking away from without saying anything about. During the Clue SE map, I was told I was right for calling KOS (because I had heard C4 start ticking and no more than a second later saw sNAppy-TurTle leaving the area the C4 was at (in the basement, around the corner the stairs is on)). Called KOS, he was eventually killed and proved Traitor. When I was slayed, in a somewhat daunting message in the chat, sNAppy-TurTle told me to report admin abuse as if I wouldn't dare, and Wolflord told me I do so.

Evidence and/or Witnesses: Kasta and Wolflord were both in the server when it happened.

 

I slayed him because he kosed me on sus. The rule islanting C4 is kosable. Not walking away form it after it is planted and not saying anything. He did not see me plant. I could of been considered highly sus but not kosable. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =234944570

 

I'd like to add that both Kasta and I told Snappy that he should drop it because he had a valid reason to kill snappy from the looks of it, but mostly because twinmold left the server for a few rounds and we didn't feel like something of that sorts deserved an rdm and leave ban. Even before he left, however, Kasta at least was saying that he didn't deserve a slay for what he did, with me agreeing for the most part(Though I stayed fairly neutral throughout this ordeal until snappy decided to slay him an entire map later).

Then, Twin rejoined the server and snappy slayed him despite us handling the report and declining the slay, and told us/twin to report him on the forums if we felt like arguing it. Thus, here we are on the forums. I don't believe it's proper conduct for a mod to so heavily argue over a slay he wants on someone who personally killed him, just because he feels like it wasn't a good reason to kill him over, when multiple other staff members are online to handle the situation and told him to not go forward with it.

It's downright disrespectful to both Kasta and I to be honest. I personally don't slay for rdms on me if any other staff members are online to deal with the report I make, but I especially would never overturn someone else's judgement on my report if another staff member felt I was wrong about it being rdm, because I realize that when you're the one who gets killed, you're biased towards the situation.

 

Never handle your own reports if other mods are on, bro, sorry

 

Need admin to judge.

 

Honestly, if there are mods on and there's reports on me, I usually leave them alone. I let the other mods handle the reports. You should never handle your own reports unless there aren't any mods on.

 

Well it's late, so I'm going to keep this short.

#1 You should not handle rdm reports that are against you unless there are no other mods/admins on.
#2 If you came out of an small area like basement, and the person goes in and sees a C4/burning body/Unid, it is kosable, like in the nipperhouse basement, after i plant C4 down there I usually go up to the door and stand there and look around to make sure no one goes down or sees me come out. Sure you may not be the person who planted it, or you could of not seen it, just like passing by unids without knowing.
#3 Three moderators including you were on at that time, two were against your decision and you still went ahead and slain him after 6 rounds...
#4 Never overturn decisions after the majority have decided, if you have a question about it post on the forums or ask an higher up.

Going to bed, admins/mods can put their inputs.

 

I'd like to add the correlation in the rules:

• Hiding traitor equipment (C4, decoy, radio)

Now let's look at the definition of hide:

• put or keep out of sight; conceal from the view or notice of others.

By leaving a room or a location with a C4 that you clearly should have seen and not announcing it or warning others, you're keeping it out of the notice of others. So by ignoring a C4 and not announcing it, you're doing a traitorous act.

 

Well, I used to be an admin (if that counts for anything.) It may not but I still feel that I have a fairly solid grasp on the rules. I have a few points that I'm going to make here.

1. The c4 was placed literally 5 seconds before he called a KOS on you.

2. He walked past you (and only you) into a room with a freshly planted C4 that you were leaving.

3. You disregarded both Wolf and My opinions about the subject and continued to pester the player you accused after we had clearly taken the time to tell you it wasn't RDM.

4. You slayed the player a full map (6 rounds) later after most people would consider the topic dead.

5. You didn't show much respect in the way you were pming Twin about the incident.

As a moderator you're primary job should be that the players on the server are enjoying themselves whilst also staying within the guidelines of the rules. When the incident involves yourself you should be even more lenient when applying punishment.

Was it best for the server for you to issue a slay regarding such a minor issue a full map after the incident had passed? No.

Did it make you feel better because you had gotten some personal justice? Maybe?

Rethink what your purpose as a mod is and you will realize how ridiculous your course of action was.

 

The c4 can be set to anytime so you can't know if it is "fresh". He did not see me "place". Yes, I walked past him. Yes, I did disregard and told you all to report me if you thought I was wrong. Because there was some difficulties figuring it out. I did, I pm'd once, didn't answer so I did a triple Pm so he would see it. Yes, within the guidelines of rules.

Unnecessaryid it make you feel better because you had gotten some personal justice? Maybe?

Rethink what your purpose as a mod is and you will realize how ridiculous your course of action was.

 

What I wanted to say has already been covered.
However! I will say:
C4 a weird thing and I will give you that. Yes you could call it suspicion but you could also defend it since it is a traitor weapon that can kill lots of innos and you didn't acknowledge it in any way. Point being, it is technically a traitor act. (Another great example: "Hey guys, I'm going to shoot this deathstation!" "That's a healthstation, stop shooting that *pew pew pew, headshot, you're dead*.") I hope that made sense.

Also, regarding the reports against yourself: always let someone else handle them if another mod is on. It cuts out all biased reasons to put it lightly. If you don't agree with the verdict, message an admin like Angel said.

For you Twin, Snappy is one of the newer mods so please don't judge too harshly.
There will be a note posted on your admin stats that says disregard one slay.
Sorry about the slight inconvenience but I hope you continue to enjoy the server.

Also, since this has technically been concluded, I am going to lock it.
If you any any more questions, concerns, or added things to say please feel free to message a staff member and have this unlocked.

Thank you very much.


(Edit because I am forever the slowest typer:

You can "judge" C4 by the beeps. The louder it is the "fresher" it is.
If it is obviously loud enough to draw attention and you didn't call it out you can be killed because as stated previously, it is technically a traitor act to not draw attention to something like that. Also, as for admitting and completely saying you did infact disregard the warning not to slay him by other mods is a complete no go but as it seems like you are still defending yourself, I will unlock this. Carry on.)

 

*NOTE*

The bottom part of my post was just to give you something to think about Snappy. Didn't mean any disrespect. Just had a major issue with how you dealt with the situation and I told you that in the server.

 

Turtle, let me make this very clear:
As a moderator, your job is to enforce the rules as the rules stand in the MOTD. Your job is not to attempt to create loopholes and personal justifications with the rules.

MangoTango is offline right now, when he get's online he will deal with Turtle appropriately.

 

Don't know if I need to say this, but I never actually left the server. I went AFK (to do the report) for about 2 or 3 rounds, but remained on the server. As for the triple message, the first one came up, and I didn't have time to see/respond before the other 3 came up (making my entire message board the private message). Just figured I add a bit of clarity from my end.

 

My stance is that if someone is walking away from/standing near a C4 that they can clearly see/hear in a room without calling it out either in text or voice, it's traitorous. Use your own best judgement (IE if someone walks into a room sees a C4 with 10 seconds left and starts running out without calling it, don't shoot them in the face... but if you open a closet door and see someone in there with a c4 with 40 seconds left, and he hasn't called it, then go ahead and blast him.) We allow people to murder hapless innocents left and right for the simple mistake of not IDing a body near them, so the same really should apply to traitor equipment like C4/tripwires.

I'd suggest treating C4/tripwires to be like unided bodies, and people "ID" them by calling them out/destroying/disarming. You walk away from one/stand over one without either calling it out or trying to disarm/destroy it, its KOSable.

As for the specific case, Unless you have some evidence that the other mods don't have access to (screenshot, video, etc) that would change the outcome of the case, usually you should probably let other mods handle reports by/against you, unless its really open and shut (IE round starts someone shoots you at 0:01, or someone reports you for killing them 1 second after they murder someone else). If you really disagree with the decision of the other mods, you should probably check with any admin+ on Steam at the time before taking actions that would contradict the majority vote.

 

This being the case i suggest a rule change to avoid future cases like this. The Rule:Not identifying bodies, should be changed to Not identifying bodies, c4, tripwires. Because clearly there is a problem of not having a finite rule. It(the rule:Hiding traitor equipment (C4, decoy, radio) is subject to opinion as it stands now. This would put an end to cases such as this. Unless anyone can see a problem with this?

 

There should be no problem with the current rules. It's already in the rules as I described earlier. Our players can grasp what the rule covers, so why can't you?

There is no opinion to the current rule, the cold hard facts define ignoring a C4 as traitorous(fact being the definition of "hide" which is a keyword there). It hasn't been an issue thus far, and the main issue is you going against senior mods and dealing with a report you had against someone else(assuming, hopefully you filed a report in the first place). If you have two mods telling you what NOT to do, you should come to an admin and not tell them to report you for it.

 

So could i just say I didn't see it, and I didn't hear it(if i didn't plant). Then it is no longer hiding or ignoring. It would then be rdm if someone killed me for it. Hardly seems fair to either party. Then, in your own opinion you have to decide what happened and if it was rdm.

AND please do not remind me about how I went about it, I GET it i was WRONG.

 

I still wouldn't consider it RDM. Though I usually shoot first, then ask questions later.

 

he just said if they "Hide". If not on purpose then it is not "hiding". Which is why we should have rule change.