Completed Report against FeniX and Pierogi

Discussion in 'TTT Staff/Player Reports' started by wickedplayer494, Jan 24, 2021.

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  1. Name of Staff/Player:
    FeniX and Pierogi
    Steam ID of Staff/Player:
    FeniX: STEAM_0:0:64354981 / Pierogi: STEAM_0:1:42390510
    Your Steam ID:
    STEAM_0:0:39891323
    Which Server:
    East 1
    Which Map:
    ttt_black_mesa_east_2018
    Which Round:
    Map change in 6 rounds, and Map change in 4 rounds
    Time of Occurence:
    ~9:10 PM EST
    Reason For Report:
    FeniX: Camping/delaying when the majority of players are dead x2/Attempted RDM x1
    Pierogi: Slaying 2 Traitors who were actively looking for the last Innocent but couldn't manage to find them​
    Evidence And/Or Witnesses:
    On two occasions, FeniX cornered himself in an attempt to shoot Traitors with radars (or Innocents that happened to come by without one).

    The first incident was when he barricaded himself with a bunch of crates and barrels inside one of the cells in a way that you could've described as claiming a room, though without actually saying it. I was a Traitor this particular round, and it was getting down to a few other Innocent players left. I started to destroy some of the crates he had barricaded himself in with using a Raging Bull, and as soon as we gained line of sight against each other, FeniX started to open fire on me in spite of the fact that the only shots I fired were against crates, thereby attempting an RDM. I managed to instantly cap him, and fake called him out as a Traitor after he had already died. Incident video: https://streamable.com/cxo3f7

    The second incident was in the kitchen area (AFAIK only accessible using the Shabbat mode elevator), where again FeniX had decided to take up refuge in a corner. I was a Detective this round but the events that unfolded occurred long after I had died. Again, it got down to just a couple of players, at this point it was just FeniX and two Traitors (Eternal_Fuckering STEAM_0:1:149490383, and Fluff Butt STEAM_0:0:524034438).

    Pierogi had issued the first of two notices for Traitors to start traiting at 8:00 left in the round. At this point, one of the Ts was screwing about with a spectator possessing a prop, so this seemed justified at the time. A few minutes went by, and Pierogi issued the second of two "Traitors, please start traiting." notices with ~6:21 left in the round. By this point both of them had went into the inside of the facility looking for FeniX, and someone had mentioned that they had thought they heard FeniX claim he was stuck (AFAIK it was actually someone else, and they were dead by that point).

    I was initially on the side of slaying the two Traitors for delaying as I usually do, but as soon as someone said "what the fuck is FeniX doing bruv", I went on over to where he was and noticed that he had crawled up into a corner staring right at the elevator, hoping to kill whoever he saw, I guess Traitor or not, just like in the first incident. Around 5:32, Pierogi issued a final "Please stop delaying." warning, and by that point I had already expressed my opinion in textchat that it should be FeniX that should have been slain for camping and delaying the round while the majority of players were dead (although there were something like 16 MIAs, the distinctive lack of chat activity he could've been able to hear should have been enough of a cue otherwise). Then about 10-12 seconds later, Pierogi slayed Eternal, and then Fluff Butt another 10-15 seconds later, handing the win to the Innocents.

    Incident videos: https://streamable.com/vt13lv (contains Pie's 1st "start traiting"), https://streamable.com/w3f5si (contains Pie's 2nd "start traiting", "stop delaying", and footage of FeniX's camping)

    The events of the first incident speak for themselves. As for the second, in my opinion FeniX should have been slain instead of Eternal and Fluff Butt, as both Eternal and Fluff did quit the dogfucking and started to hunt FeniX down. However in spite of a couple of us expressing this view, Pierogi went on and slayed them both instead.​
     
  2. Elvis

    Elvis TheRockStars VIP Silver

    @Pierogi Has been notified of this report. Please give him some time to gather his evidence and present it here.

    Also tagging @j3kawesome as his Admin.
     
  3. I also tagged Eternal and Fluff Butt on Discord just in case they want to provide their statements on this one.

    Update:
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Pierogi

    Pierogi Special Properations Administrator VIP

    So when it comes to Eternal, the only damage that came from him that round was tazing Fluff Butt 52 seconds into the round:
    upload_2021-1-25_7-21-53.png

    Eternal had also purchased a radar 3.5 minutes before he was slain:
    upload_2021-1-25_7-40-42.png

    Fluff Butt did a whopping 11 damage that round:
    upload_2021-1-25_7-41-27.png

    Fluff Butt also had enough credits to purchase a radar, but didn't:
    upload_2021-1-25_7-45-21.png
    upload_2021-1-25_7-46-30.png
    [​IMG]

    When I began issuing the slays, both Ts were nowhere near Fenix:
    [​IMG]

    After the third warning, I had also asked for and received permission from @Voca, who was also on at the time.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Voca

    Voca o.o Administrator VIP

    Well to start it off your recording itself shows why we didnt slay Fenix for camping.
    Majority of players was Missing in Action. Which means Fenix isnt aware that Majority of players are dead.
    And it then would be sorta ghosting if we were to warn him for camping while majority is dead.

    Its the Traitors objective to seek out Innos and kill them, not neccesarily the other way.

    I will admit tho, when I was busy investigating another report between NovaKing and Bobby Bobs, tabbing in and out of game so I didnt realise the delay was happening and when I saw Pierogis message I confused it to be related to the report.

    Either way he was correct to issue the slays, as 1 of em had a radar and was able to tell where they needed to go to find the last inno. But they just didnt go there for several minutes and after 3 minutes, they still werent even close.

    So whats left to investigate would be if Fenix did RDM people, of what I recall, he was never reported, and the most I myself saw them do was shoot first at people (Bait them into shooting him) if you had witnessed him RDM or attempted RDM, you could have told us ingame tho.
     
  6. j3kawesome

    j3kawesome "mestimate" - Indy226 Administrator VIP Silver

    I have seen this and will respond to this later today
     
  7. As it pertains to the second incident you are correct. The first incident however, there's a simple majority of Confirmed Dead (16 > 15 alive + MIA).

    Theoretically speaking, you're also right at least as far as an on-paper interpretation, though seeing as we've gone to on-paper interpretations, how is "Traitors, please start traiting." any different as far as the ghosting rule is concerned? To an Innocent player (or a Detective), that would be roughly the same thing as explicitly tipping them off that the majority are dead, since the only times where Traitors are told to get traiting is when there's a handful of people left or fewer and spectators are getting impatient. Especially if it happens twice in the same round, and followed up with a "Please stop delaying". The fact that there would have been a large drop-off in text chat and voice chat activity that could have been heard would also have been a cue that not many people are alive. A bit of a sketchier and looser cue, but still a cue nonetheless.

    In the heat of the moment trying to cap FeniX before he could cap me it hadn't occurred to me at that moment in time that he was the one that had actually opened fire first, it was only after incident #2 had happened where I started to gather evidence for this report that I had realized that he shot first in incident #1 and had actually hit me a couple of times before I removed his head:
    [​IMG]
    Despite being pretty damn obvious and whiffing a lot with a Barrett much earlier in the same round, I wasn't ever called out as a Traitor myself up to this point until a "please start traiting" notice well after the events of incident #1 happened and Fluff Butt shotgunned me after obeying that directive. The Attempted RDM portion of it is more so a technicality than it is the main bread and butter of the report (as is Pierogi's bit for the slays, at least who the slays were against; not expecting too much on that front other than a gentle nudge, no hard feelings as he got admin approval), my intent was to wind up killing him anyway and it just so happened that our shots were nearly simultaneous (mine against props with no penetration, his against flesh). I probably would've not made a big stink about it had incident #2 not happened which is why I let it fly at that moment.

    In any case though, it doesn't address the root problem that the intent was twice very clearly present on FeniX's part to not budge from the places where he was remaining and delay the round in both incident #1 by barricading himself in with crates and barrels and incident #2 where even after the "Please stop delaying." notice (which could be interpreted pretty generically as applying to both the Innocent and Traitor sides), he remained in the same spot of the kitchen (only accessible with the elevator or the really long ladder that some may not even realize lets you jump off onto different floors). Pierogi was absolutely right to have gone with an insta-slay to get the round over with, though it wasn't FeniX's first time remaining in the same spot with a clear intent to stall the round and it really should have been him who ate the insta-slay (sufficient notice was already given with "please stop delaying" first).

    A different theoretical example that could have unfolded on Black Mesa is if someone had used one of the boats to get in behind the dam area (not ordinarily accessible) and kept their mouth shut and didn't request a !stuck after they ran out of fuel. Even if a Traitor did buy a radar and very clearly knew where they were but couldn't get there, if a staffer wasn't paying too much attention to what was going on and/or a Traitor didn't care to say "hey how come <innocent terrorist> is behind the dam I can't get to him to kill him" to try and get a staff member to bring that player back into a playable area of the map, that Traitor could be slain under the same line of logic that it's up to them to come to the innocents and finish them off (and then they'd probably report that player for propsurfing/loopholing after they ate a slay, and justifiably so). That precedent doesn't really sit right with me.
     
  8. Pierogi

    Pierogi Special Properations Administrator VIP

    Going to any part of the map that isn't possible without props or boats is against the rules. So the person out of bounds would've been unstuck.
     
  9. Voca

    Voca o.o Administrator VIP

    "No camping allowed while majority of players are dead" have a number of players specification, that basically gives the Info that 50-98% of players are dead, so you shouldnt camp. If we were to use that while less than 50% of players are alive + MIA we are basically giving the Information that some players are dead/MIA compared to what the camper is aware of, if we use it while 50% and above are dead, we are not giving the new player new info. They can speculate as much as they want, but the warning wont neccesarily mean that some of the people they see as alive, are dead.

    Compared to Traitors Please start Traiting, which have no specifications on amount of players, its simply used for when Traitors arent making a move of any sort for a periode of time.
    The warning doesnt Specify, how many Traitors are delaying, how many players are alive. Just simply states that they are delaying. While rarily seen, it can be used when all players are alive even, I dont think I ever had to use the warn like that before, tho I do recall a round in the past where Traitors hadnt done anything for the first 2 minutes of the round, in which case I could have used the global warn.

    Rest is just speculations upon Observations
    Anyone can speculate on observations, no matter if a global warn was initiated or not.
    As long as they dont use it to kill on sus really.

    Staff never warn for delays or to start Traiting without checking on other players position, if someone is caught out of bounds they are moved if it delays the round, never would a staff member slay the traitors in such scenario.

    Lastly we will investigate the claims on Fenix next time we get a chance to on the server.
     
  10. Voca

    Voca o.o Administrator VIP

    So this was the only thing I could find with Fenix during all of Black Mesa. He only damaged 2 people for that entire map, you and me.

    For your report:
    [​IMG]
    You fired 2 shots first where he shot back firing 3 shots before you tapped him.
    So this will not be ruled as RDM unless you have a video that shows you didnt fire those 2 shots at him or towards anyone.

    Other person he damaged was me, where I threw a harpoon at him before he shot me and I killed him.
    So thats another invalid case.

    So unless you have a recording for the first instance I have to rule this as Invalid against FeniX
     
  11. That's what https://streamable.com/cxo3f7 covers. I shot into props (specifically, trying to break a crate).
     
  12. Voca

    Voca o.o Administrator VIP

    Alright with this provided I can add a slay, and mark that part as Valid. Thanks for reporting, leave the rest to @j3kawesome
     
  13. j3kawesome

    j3kawesome "mestimate" - Indy226 Administrator VIP Silver

    For the part of this report on Pierogi, I feel Voca Summed it up very well
    He gave 2 warnings to the Traitors who were not using the possible resources that they had to find the traitor which then led to him asking for discression to slay the 2 which was given by Voca.
    He followed protocol and even got permission from an admin to make sure he was doing the right thing

    Report (Pierogi): Invalid
    Thread: Locked
     
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