RDM "Expiration" to be Defined

Discussion in 'Rules and Protocol' started by Python~, Jan 22, 2018.

?

How many maps should be between the 2 RDMs for the RDMer to be pardoned?

  1. 1

  2. 2

  3. 3

  4. 4

  5. Up to staff's discretion

  6. 30 minutes

  7. 1 hour

  8. 1 and a half hours

  9. 2 hours

  10. Go by rounds, not time or maps

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. ink

    ink Genuine Happiness VIP Silver

    What's interesting is that you have clearly identified the problem yourself about staff punishing certain players harsher than the rest with respect to RDM, yet fail to think it needs to be fixed. The principle of keeping RDM and other offenses separate is one of the key principles of our community, and letting the current system live on is actively diminishing the values we set for the community. Toxicity and other offenses are separate crimes in and of them itself, and are dealt with separately. We shouldn't mix admin discretion and what is just punishing some players more than other players. The current system is unfair to people who somehow "ring a a bad bell to staff", and the current staff here and ex-staff have clearly identified that this happens and has happened. After identifying the issue that goes against our current values as a community, we need to address the issue or change our values themselves; doing neither is just lazy. Staff should have a discussion about whether they think they want to punish people who ring a bad bell to them and stop the discussion, or if they do NOT want to punish them, address this conflict. The purpose of this thread was to bring light to this issue, and it has fulfilled its purpose by showing that this is indeed a problem. The people in charge should take it from here and discuss what they think about it and settle it.
     
  2. Darth West

    Darth West I am Darth West, Dark Lord of the Sith. VIP

    No I literally just quoted what you typed. If you view it as dumb then maybe the words you type are dumb. But again great use of the argument of demeaning what is being said. Also lord forbid I have to actually respond to every word you say when half of the topics posts are yours, my bad.

    See your issue is that you see this in the wrong light. You feel like this goes against the server's ideals because it is not a set in stone rule. The problem with that, according to more than 60 percent of the community that has voted, is that they don't think it is a problem. Because at the end of the day they don't think that a timing rule is necessary and at best a time waste.

    And so what? How many admins have been demoted for using discretion more commonly?

    ...... We have unneeded rules for stupid senerio's. We have added rules and changed them *IMO* that are ass backwards. Why do we need more unneeded rules?


    ...... This issue literally affects staff, how would I not notice it being an issue? Are you calling me biased?

    10 second to complete the entire process = ok

    10 seconds for a single slay
    bad times = 5 or more reports a round
    bad times = 4 slays
    6 rounds
    24 slays a map
    24 * 10
    240 seconds
    4 minutes out of game looking at some dumbass list, during which you are not an active staff member for the map.
    Great Idea 10/10
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. .shirt

    .shirt VIP

    Can't believe this is being discussed this much.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Bravo

    Bravo VIP

    To be clear Forcie - this is how I actually read Pythons poll in the first place. I also find it a little strange that you repeatedly say you're against the idea and yet quite clearly point out you feel the system is flawed. TomCat may not be making particularly good arguments for it, but I would say your point makes an extremely valid critique of the current system. There are mods that I would trust with the current essentially unlimited discretion on how long to keep that slay 'active' for, but there are others that... I most certainly would not trust to not single someone out just because they don't like them; and as the silly back-and-forth proved - plenty of mods don't even see there being a problem for a "particularly toxic" player being more noticeable than a generally well mannered player. How exactly would a player prove that the staff member had singled them out because they didn't like them? As I see it it would be nigh impossible to prove it was malicious on the staff member's behalf.

    Now sure, I doubt mods are even vaguely often in a position to ACTUALLY mass RDM ban over such a long period of time (after all, it would require a particularly long session from both player and staff - as I'm pretty sure any RDM ban earned over multiple days/sessions would likely just get automatically appealed and the appeal accepted) however, again, you yourself agree that there is the potential for issues to arise; so if nothing else comes out of this thread I think your point about having a hard limit to how long staff members can hold an RDM slay as 'active' for should definitely be a thing.

    Just as a side note Jassa, I would argue that if you end up with a slay 'overnight' (thus assumedly on your last map or two) then come back and RDM within two maps... you quite probably -should- get a double slay, after all it could be symptomatic of an underlying issue - namely that the person who managed to get themselves slain again so quickly is likely prone to RDM. However, for obvious reasons (namely providing proof in the event it became a mass RDM ban and was appealed), this would be an utter nightmare for staff to deal with; and thus would be silly.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Juice Juice™

    Juice Juice™ VIP Emerald Bronze

    Yes, I would have no trouble believing that you, specifically, are biased.
    However, the point I was making is that a staff member wouldn't necessarily notice this because they aren't on the receiving end. Like has been demonstrated in this thread again and again: Staff members just forget. How are you going to quantify something that has a large part based on you forgetting about it?

    I'm going to recuse myself from this argument, in any case. I'm not going to do it any favors, and if the 40:48 polling tells us anything, enough people want it to be changed that it does warrant consideration, even if you don't like it, or you don't agree with it. Because this a change that directly impacts the players, and deals with punishments, I would argue it doesn't matter how popular it is how how much you agree with it, as long as the changes made make sense to those in charge, and benefit the server.

    Oh no. 4 minutes. At most, even.
     
  6. Hingle

    Hingle Slow Motion VIP Emerald

    Can’t wait for this to be changed, and then I tab out for a second to keep track of my 69th slay on the server, and while I’m tabbed someone says “Nigger” and I get reported on the forums cause I didn’t immediately warn him for harassment. Overall Python, not a bad suggestions unfortunately most of the people agreeing with you have never been staff, so of course it’s no problem because they have a ton of experience to back that claim up.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2