What I think you should focus on is most staff have responded with 2 things: 1) How to report staff so that we can find specific members to improve their abilities/protocol 2) Steps a player can take to help staff members on the player's own cases. Player says "I have a problem with staff and loopholers". Staff responds "Here's how to improve the staff problem, here's something you can do to help with the loophole problem" And you have taken offense to that, that we DARE to ask you to take steps to fix a problem that affects you because you pay our taxes and pay our salary and decide when trying our best, counting bodies in the logs, trying to keep up with reports, trying to get info and coming up just short of enough evidence isn't good enough for you
I don't play to make any reports. And the customer is usually the best critic, if staff can't handle BASIC evidence gathering then maybe they shouldn't be a staff member, its not a job, its voluntary.
@Carned Your first post. There was multiple posts here pointing out how this logic is flawed and not the appropriate way to handle the report(s). Even if log evidence could show that it was RDM, a players word could make it WvW, regardless of what logs can say sometimes.. It was only until Kawaii stated have a recording to prove people are loopholing, did you start to chant against recordings. Which is the fastest, and best way to catch someone doing this.
I didnt mean that, i mean that they wont be around to babywatch around everyone on the server when there are 30+ prople
If a staff member cannot handle a server with 30+ people, they shouldn't be a staff member. Apart from my original first post is sufficient for 90% of cases, i never claimed it to be 100%, however the impression everyone else gave was that it's impossible to get anything done with recordings.
The original post is looking for ideas on how to handle loopholers, not how to go around expecting staff to be perfect and then not taking steps to improve them. This OP is asking for things to do to help his situation, not just saying "fix this for me" which puts the OP as an example of a good community member, the "how can I help out to help myself and the server" over "Hey, you guys should do better so I have more fun"
I don't recall anyone saying you needed recordings to get anything done and its the only way to get it done. Can you show me a post that says that?
Nice subtle use of insulting there. I gave him ways his reports can be solved, he doesnt need to do anything. It's not a specific post, just a general consensus that the ways of dealing with reports I stated were not enough, when they are in 90% of cases.
I am not sure where you got that consensus from when no one said it, but stated to catch loopholers evidence of a recording is best to have to turn a WvW situation into your favor. I apologize for that misunderstanding.
I'm just going to leave this now, I have to go to work and frankly I dont play on the TTT servers anymore to care enough how they are run. Thank you all for your comments and i hope it gives people something to chew over.
Of course they are in 90% of cases, it's the 10% of cases that everyone worries about. Just like when you go a day getting a ton of T-rounds, sometimes you go a day where that 10% happens to you a lot. Yes, staff can improve, more staff members have been making and using their own recordings for evidence, and I've been very encouraging of that. This will cut down on the voice kos excuses as well as unID's and most things listed here. But that doesn't mean staff should be chastised for telling someone who is asking what they can do, exactly what they can do, because that 10% will come around and suddenly seems like 70% when it's still the usual rate.
I think something this comes down to is some, not all, staff members may need to put in a little more effort into investigating reports. Remember that evidence beyond reasonable doubt is what it takes to get someone punished and one of the best pieces of evidence is a recording. Does everyone have to record to catch loopholers? No; sometimes staff catch them eventually. Can staff catch and punish loopholers easier if they have a recording? Yes and you don't need a huge beefy PC to record a demo. Really this boils down to a "help me, help you" situation. Even when it comes to a staff member not doing their duties to their full expectations, the best way to back it up is with a recording. Recordings are not an end all, be all, as logs will sometimes provide enough evidence to issue punishment. However, extra tools, like recordings, aid greatly in the reporting process for loopholers and subpar staff. Now everyone just relax, take a deep breath. You all make valid points.
How they're being run now is no different than when you first started; so I fail to see the need for this whole arguement. Sure some rule specifics have changed but at our community's core we've always promoted needing 100% evidence of RDM to slay somebody, as that's the very first thing I've told any Trial Mods I've trained. Like Sinz I agree with you in regards to Staff Members taking all the steps that you mentioned in your first post, but that wont always lead to a slay and that's when we take note of possible loopholing for the future. People get upset that the punishment is not immediate for these players but it's often harsher and that should be understood.
loopholing is hard to catch, you cannot prove it /w logs alone, there is no death scene, admins cannot spectate 30 people at the same time. and Little Johnny might loophole RDM in round 1 because the oppertunity arised, and then he just doesn't do it again. are you asking staff to spectate suspected loopholers untill they do something? unfortunately the world does not revolve around you and they can only spend a limited amount of time on each report. and from my personal experience staff do their best when i ask them to keep an eye on someone and are usually very communicative if i ask them if they managed to get any dirt on said player. furthermore in regards to you getting killed for passing unid's/c4's yada yada, you shouldn't make assumptions, you are not a God and you don't know what people see and what they don't, just because you didn't see the UNID'd you passed, doesn't mean that it wasn't there, ofcourse sometimes people just flat out lie or they are mistaken.
In 4 hours there's been 4 pages. Also my input I hate the rdm excuse that ts do so they aren't killed by others. For example While I'm minding my own Buisness "OMG, Chad stop rdming me" T kills me It's not an rdm excuse but it's a way to kill someone with the reason of "rdming nub"
I seriously hate it especially when a little kid is SCREECHING his head off not so people don't kill him. Have we gone over the excuse of Hes holding a harpoon when you got it from a t and even everyone else acknowledged hey this guy is proven with a poon. Don't kill him
