Political Throwdown (part 2)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Pacifist, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Grumble

    Grumble VIP

  2. Mr. Disco

    Mr. Disco Jeff Lynne is a musical genius. VIP

    I really like our president. I think he's done a good job handling this virus. It could have been better...but technically, everything can always be better.

    Yes, he may have down-played it to begin with, but so did a lot of people.
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  3. LeBlonde James

    LeBlonde James Supporter

    I would never expect our President to be 100% on top of things, but if the Chief Financial Officer of a company allowed 23 million dollars to be burnt to a crisp, you'd blame him.
    It's the President's job to be on top of things, and this whole administration has been infighting with Trump his whole presidency. He has a whole cabinet of people to warn him about this stuff.
    What-about-isms are dumb. You're admitting he was stupid, you're just also making sure to note everyone else was just as dumb.
    It's not a massacre out there, it's half of a crisis, but I've watched his press briefings (I should get paid to do this tbh) and I can assure you he's very aware of how much he fucked up, his ego just won't say it.
    TL;DR - oRanGE mAN bAd
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  4. Mr. Disco

    Mr. Disco Jeff Lynne is a musical genius. VIP

    I am not admitting he was stupid. He wasn’t stupid. You can’t really call something stupid when it was a pretty rational thought. Around early March, most of America didn’t realize how bad the coronavirus was. Why? No testing. Once tests started showing up, cases started growing. That’s when shit got real for America, and President Trump.

    I can’t really call people dumb for thinking that when someone is sick they should stay home and not go outside. Sadly they didn’t stay at home. That’s how this spread. So no, I’m not saying everyone is dumb. I never used everyone to begin with, why? That’s too inclusive. Some people always think the worst. Those people were right.

    It’s funny how I say I like President Trump and you want to break down and completely over think everything I wrote.

    btw, I wouldn’t blame Trump if someone fucked up. I’d blame the person who fucked up. Then I would look at Trump and be like, but what the hell dude, you supervise him- what went wrong? Is this guy just a scandalous prick or did you allow this? That’s how I think.

    I don’t know about the 23 million dollars you claim. Not something I’ve heard about. I focus more on my school than I do the life of damn Donald Trump. He’s a filthy rich billionaire who will do everything he can to make money (it seems) but he does know business, and America is one huge business. (There’s also other stuff to deal with, like diplomacy, but that’s also a thing in business as well) (if you really wanna talk about wasted tax dollars....Mueller investigation)

    Donald Trump is by no means perfect. By no means the best president ever. But I support him. I kind of relate to him. He’s constantly been attacked for no reason from the day he decided to run. Love people who only think about their shitty party.

    Come down to Election Day people should do research into all of the candidates who are running(perhaps only the popular ones to be fair. The alternate parties never win. Not saying they couldn’t... but I wouldn’t waste my time(unless all of the main party candidates are huge cunts)) and then they can weigh out the policies, find out what they relate to.

    In the end politics seems to be a matter of opinion. How the country is ran seems to be a matter of opinion. But when I have money to spend, I’m happy. When I have my civil rights, I’m happy. When my friends aren’t constantly talking about dumb things, I’m happy. When I have a roof over my head, I’m happy.

    Also no you really shouldn’t get paid to watch TV. Unless you are a journalist who is writing the next “fuck Trump because of his most recent briefing on XX/XX/XX” then you shouldn’t. It’s your time. Spend your time how you want, you are entitled to do that. If you feel like you are wasting your time, you should probably invest it into something else.

    tl:dr - don’t make a huge fucking post to assume things about what was clear. Please don’t tell me how to think. I didn’t come here forcing everyone to think differently. Just stated I liked our President. Very cool. Thanks for your redundant reply.

    Sorry for any grammar or spelling mistakes, can blame some on my phone, but most spliced commas are definitely my casual style of writing.

    A better tl:dr for your post would actually be “you’re wrong, the above post explains why. Donald Trump sucks!”

    edit: after looking at this on my computer I realized you did not write a huge post. my bad lol. i was on my phone.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
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  5. Pacifist

    Pacifist Cynically Insane VIP Bronze

    I mean, maybe the general public didn't know how bad coronavirus was going to be, but Trump and his administration definitely had an idea. You can't tell me that those secret meetings they had in January weren't filled with speculation. He also dismissed the pandemic response team, which, idk, may have been good to have. I'm not attacking the president, i'm just saying that he hasn't done a good job. I'm happy that he has finally realized that this isn't a fuckin joke and is actually starting to take it seriously, but it may be too little too late. Look man, I don't sit here praying that the president fucks up so I can use it as political capital. I'd be just as pissed off if Obama handled this thing the same way as Trump.

    When it comes to policy I pretty much decided from the get go that I would be voting for Biden. I don't like him that much, but compared to Trump? At least he isn't going to enforce travel bans, repeal net neutrality, increase defense spending (actually he probably will do this one), build a wall, slash taxes, ban transgenders from the military, almost get us into a war with Iran and North Korea, get us out of the Paris Climate Agreement, launch a trade war with China, do a quid pro quo with the leader of Ukraine, declare a national emergency to fund a border wall, attempt to repeal the ACA, place clearly partisan judges on the supreme court, give a medal of freedom to Rush Fucking Limbaugh, pedal anti-vax conspiracies, have a VP that is so anti-gay it isn't even funny, then put that guy in charge of handling a pandemic despite his failures as governor in curbing an HIV epidemic in Indiana (he literally said, "I'll pray on it"), have his administration be filled with top level business insiders (and people with clear conflicts of interest), constantly inflame situations over twitter, and more or less cause other miscellaneous problems.

    I didn't start out hating trump. In fact, in 2016? I probably would have voted for him over Hillary Clinton. Yet, that was four fucking years ago. You can't say "BUT HILLARY IS A SNAKE" to excuse the problems with Trump. I'd much rather have sleepy joe than orange man. Also, fuck the news media. Idgaf what CNN, MSNBC, or Fox news has to say about anything. Those people are full of shit. MSNBC and CNN are better for factual information, but they also have some of the most dumb opinions on the planet. Fox News is just objectively terrible all around. They fail fact checks, pedal conspiracy theories, and literally suck Trump's dick 24/7. It is why I don't watch the news lol.

    Anyways ye. o r a n g e m a n b a d
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  6. Mr. Disco

    Mr. Disco Jeff Lynne is a musical genius. VIP

    I mean I don't care if you hate Trump. Well really, it seems more like you disagree with his policies. That's politics. Hillary is a chronic liar. I mean Trump lies too, but she was known to lie about everything for power and control. Not something I'd want, I agree. Also idk why people call him sleepy joe lol, Trump is kind of rude to give him that name. I really wouldn't trust any news reporters right now. All articles online are written with someone's perspective. That's fine, its just like I wish people could just lay down facts and not assumptions alongside the facts.

    I don't think its right to assume a conspiracy theory. I have in the past. I'll admit. They're not really inherently"wrong" to do though... sometimes assumptions are good, its just you are saying he has handled it badly with a heavy weight on an assumption that may or may not be correct. I just don't think that's the right way to think. You can do it, it just seems wrong though.

    Sure he might have had that idea thrown out there. But you really don't want your whole country going into a panic, so why publicly take immediate action. Well for one, this pandemic could have been prevented. But who knows. It's all what-if alternate history to me right now.

    Since you mention Biden's "views" I thought I'd also give my opinion.

    I did research because I'm tired of people throwing Biden out there and me not having a damn clue.

    I don't think I like Biden's policies. For one, he said he didn't support same-sex marriage in 2008. Now he does. Clinton did the same thing, but I can't blame them to begin with because back then it was almost political suicide to support same-sex marriage. People are allowed to change their minds, so I won't really hold much for that.

    I like what I saw about Biden's history of immigration. He supported a fence(though people have just cut the fence or dug under it (very easy to do, or you lift it up. People cross illegally it seems quite a bit. I would like a more aggressive handle on that.

    I dislike his idea of social media. Holding the platform's accountable for user posts seems stupid and quite like social media is forced to be a dictator. Hold the user accountable. They posted it, not the fucking platform.

    Biden doesn't want to worry about China. I would. If we don't worry about them they will be the #1 world power. They are going through an industrial revolution, quite like we went through two centuries ago...but the problem is they have a huge technology boost, and to win in modern society, you need the upper hand in technology. I think he's wrong here.

    Tariffs are ok. It's how we can make money, and it is a good way to get leverage on countries if needed. I don't like Biden's view on this. You need to have a full deck of cards and play them accordingly.

    I think capital punishment is useful at times.

    I really REALLY dislike a 15 min wage. Take a class in Economics. That's just him catering to his fucking democratic voters with low-end jobs who think they are getting more money from a mandated min wage. That won't help anything. It won't.

    I don't think paid sick leave is right all the time. As an adult, you should learn how to save money in case you get sick and are left without pay. If a company wants to offer paid sick leave, that can be something they chose to do. This should be a country of freedom, not a ton of bullshit government mandates.

    this talked about reparations. I don't agree with it. But I removed all of it because you wanted to steer clear of race issues. 

    Trump hasn't been consistent of his views in the past. Again people can change their minds.

    This section talked about abortion. I have edited it to remove it after seeing the original post rules. If you want to talk to me about it, send me a private message. I don't support it, but also support it. That's all I'm going to say.

    Trump has done a lot for the economy. He has said in the past that 1% GDP isn't cutting it. Well take an Economics class, Trump. lol. It is hard for our massive economy to be more than 5% GDP. But Trump did open a lot of jobs. I really support the industry. I think its cool, and some very nice skills come from it. It promotes loads of innovation because engineers are constantly going to be hired to improve upon machine designs and manufacturing lines.

    Trump has really reached out by making jobs for minorities. He extended the civil rights act to protect homosexuals. He's been pretty supportive of homosexuals at least by law. (in the past, like biden, like hillary, like obama, pretty much a majority of politicians, he did not support same-sex marriage.) It's ok, I understand.

    It's worth pointing out, Trump said he wanted death penalty for drug dealers, yet said it seems unfair to serve life for a non-violent drug crime. Kind of stupid. Contradicts his views. Bad move. (he does this a lot lol)

    Trump said he may cut the department of ed. I don't know why. I'd have to research more. As a Tennessee resident, I can say that the Tennessee Board of Education fucking sucks. For 3 years of my high school career, we were supposed to take the end of course exams my first year. They were canceled. In my junior year we took them, but then they told us the results were voided because they couldn't get them done in time. During my senior year they had plans to do them online to make grading easier, they decided that they needed more time. Three fucking years of consistent screwing up. So I can see where Trump might be coming from. Idk. It would make sense that we need to reform the system. Our education is lacking yet we spend a good bit of money on it. INSANE!

    I really like the overall feeling of Trump's America, but I really wish there was a way for America to not be so divided by everything. Its sad.

    Also Trump does need to stop with twitter. Although the media is so corrupt and deceptive (so is trump sometimes) But it is nice to really have Trump's side of the story. (even if its exaggerated sometimes)

    As for your post relating to my post above, it did for a bit. It addressed how you feel about the coronavirus crisis. I think he's doing a good job. I mean some of his democratic "enemies" have said he is doing a good job. Very notably Ilhan Omar, someone who has opposed Trump on pretty much everything. She came out and said Trump is doing a good job handling the coronavirus. You think he did a bad job (but is doing better now) but it seems (based off the post) you are largely basing it off of a very unsure assumption - something quite like an Alex Jones conspiracy theory.

    As for this whole post I made right now, almost nothing relates to the main point of everything I posted. It goes on a huge tangent. (sin/cos) hehe. But I mean I just wanted to get the point across that I do have other reasons for why I would like Trump. I relate to his policies a bit. I dislike that he's contradicting himself....but I do that too. By no means is he the best president, but I think he's the one we need right now. I stand firm on that. And I know you stand firm on your opinion. I know you aren't out there to cuss Trump every day either. Or hopefully, you won't hate me for my political views. At the end of the day, I think we are all humans, and we should work together, especially during these times.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
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  7. LeBlonde James

    LeBlonde James Supporter

    Here's my background/history and why it's important:
    I'm from a conservative family. I am considered the liberal in the family, and though it's necessarily true on a cultural progressive standpoint, I am very pro-market. I liked Ronald Reagan, Mitt Romney, Barack Obama, George Bush.
    When Trump ran, I found his policies on border security rather insane. Even then, I still memed it like many others did and "supported him" (through memes).
    I always appreciated his integrity and self-realization, and how he's only president because he truly believes in his own policies, since he's already rich. Really he's sacrificing his name for the "greater good".
    When he won, both my dad and I were like "what the actual fuck", even though my mom is literally a Trumper to the grave. She likes the energy he gives off, makes her feel alive with that MAGA energy.
    I thought the infighting of his administration was a joke but despite that, he is responsible for moving some good policies on the economy and businesses.
    However, the general anti-foreigner sentiment his base gives off (as well his policies) can be disgusting. The obsessively sucking off that his base does is hilarious, "oh it's 4D chess" to own the libs.
    Still, I really never hated him. I just thought his twitter begone and he should stop attacking the press. The whole free speech movement from both sides against "the establishment press" is just sad and disgusting.
    It was only until I was personally affected when I started to actually started to very dislike the man. He fucked up the corona response and lies about ever doing so which is sad. His ego integrity won't allow him to ever be wrong. Just attack the press and leave ig.
    His liking to be sucked off by his base made him claim that he was totally in control and everything was a hoax. He then admitted it's a threat, but in a press briefing recently he literally said as soon as the virus hit us, he would react. As he did.
    You don't wait till the bombs hit you to start preparing your defenses. He wanted everything to be fine and look like the best president ever. When he wasn't in control anymore, he secretly launched into a panic and reacted. Thus I was almost stuck in Europe after everyone mass panicked to get the hell back home. The airports were clogged (i got through before then) and I ended up waiting the rest of my vacation days in New York City waiting for my original flight back to home. NYC was hella fun though, loved it.

    On the whole Trump v Biden thing, it's really about who Biden chooses as VP. Since Biden will probably croak while in office, as he has actually admitted, the VP needs to be ready to step up. He also said he'd only plan to be a 1 Term President.
    I'm not a Biden fan either, I was WAY more of a Pete Buttigieg or Andrew Yang fan. Shit, I know I was a fan of Trump in 2016 more than Biden in 2020. So will I vote for Trump? No. I'll probably throw my vote away and write in Yang. I'm not going to vote for someone I don't believe in. Whether my persistence is good or bad (not voting for ___ is a vote for ____) (and yes, my persistence is chronically terrible), it's just what I want.

    However, I'll say that my opinions are always up for change. I like seeing all sides of any matter, I'm surprised that people can form a solid political thought nowdays without purposefully blinding yourself to the negative.

    BTW: The "orange man bad" was me making fun of dumbass hit piece twitter self-journalists who use that phrase unironically. I hope Pacifist has the.. same idea as me.
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  8. Mr. Disco

    Mr. Disco Jeff Lynne is a musical genius. VIP

    I get the orange man bad meme. I was just ticked off that someone was actually making a fuck trump post back to me while using my words that I said in a totally different way.

    That's cool and all about your experience. I disagree with you, but I do understand what you are saying. I have friends affected by it in the same way. I could beat a dead horse and try to tell you why I would still support him, but tl;dr, I like his viewpoints more than anything.

    why do you like Yang?

    To me, I see him as a Huey Long copy - with a modern spin. If you don't know who Huey Long is, look him up and you might find one of the biggest problems in common with Yang and Long. The ideology called "Share our Wealth"

    He was very interesting to me at first but then became a HUGE letdown. On one of his Q&A's on Snapchat, his only answer went along the lines of mentioning putting 1000 dollars in the hand of every American. That's dumb lol. He's catering to poor people. You can't win with just that vote. Btw that would be like 328 billion dollars. This viewpoint of giving money just doesn't work. FDR explained why in 1935, and it still applies today (but even more in 1935.) I'm going based on history. Things change yes, but this won't change. Where do we have 328 billion dollars a month???? We do, but where at in our budget. We don't.

    I really felt like Tulsi Gabbard was a very changing person. She didn't mindlessly follow Bernie's healthcare program. She stood up against this divided America. I like that. A lot of people hate her for voting no on the impeachment...but she was cool (not for that, I liked her before that.) I would not vote for her though. There's some major viewpoints I don't like, so I won't go vote for that. Most of the democratic canidates running, besides Tulsi Gabbard and Yang, seemed to have the only main platform of "Lol fuck trump. I will win!"

    Cool, but what are your viewpoints? (Yes that is an exaggeration as they did say their viewpoints. But most of the time the big highlight of debates that you could take away was "yes I support ..... and I will do..... and fuck trump. I will beat him. He sucks. He's a racist *crowd cheers* vote for me 2020 thx bye" )
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  9. Pacifist

    Pacifist Cynically Insane VIP Bronze

    Proof that Rich people aren't actually Americans. :)

    No, i'm only joking of course. He actually had a lot of policies, but I get what you mean. His rhetoric and speaking style was boring as hell and at times he came off as if he was rambling. That being said, I want you to explain where this hatred (honestly I just couldn't find a better word) towards the poor comes from. I'll point out a few things, and I want you to really think about why you hold these beliefs. I was going to hit you up on discord about this, as I am more so curious than anything else. Here we go lol.

    This concerns me. First of all, I have taken an economics class. In fact, I've taken several. It is part of my major for becoming a social studies teacher. Sure, you may have your quarrels with raising the minimum wage. Personally? It probably wont do that much to the economy. You aren't really increasing inflation because you aren't increasing the amount of money circulated. More or less, adjusting the minimum wage is to keep pace with the fact that our economy has expanded, but wages have stagnated. I don't necessarily support the idea, but at the end of the day I don't see it as a problematic policy. It helps people, and should that not be the goal of policy? After all, you said it yourself, "At the end of the day, I think we are all humans, and we should work together, especially during these times." It is strange to me that you seem to hate these policies more because they appeal to the working poor, which I think you could explain better.

    The next one is even more blatant. Paid sick leave, at least during a pandemic, should be mandatory. If the company cannot afford it than the government can step in, especially during a pandemic. Whether you think that it is deserved otherwise is up to you to decide. I believe that it should be covered all the time, as you can't really control when you get sick. That being said, it is interesting to me that you hold this assumption that everyone in this country has the option to save money. In some instances it just isn't. Some people work jobs that don't pay well, and they are stuck in housing that costs a lot. It is no wonder that so many Americans are in debt, and only about 40% can afford an emergency that costs more than $1000.

    What I want to ask you is this, and it is rather personal to me, do you believe that our society is inherently equal, and that every person has the same power, and that nobody is chained by oppression? Also hmu on discord I want to talk politics to you one on one! :D
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  10. Mr. Disco

    Mr. Disco Jeff Lynne is a musical genius. VIP

    I’m on my phone because I’ve put up my computer for the day. This is too much to address. It’s quite silly.

    where did I say I hate poor people?

    never did. I don’t. My family was very poor for a long time. We were on food stamps, and received government aid.

    I was saying he’s only catering to poor people. He wouldn’t win anyway. It wasn’t a strong candidate, and wasn’t a strong augment. I’m talking politics, not morals. (Btw my girlfriend is probably one of the lowest income brackets.) poor people are just as human as everyone else. That’s such a silly claim you would make against me. I have not shown any hate to poor people. Again, here’s an example of a bad assumption.

    people are not equal. Best example is look at you, you have different views than me. You live in Michigan, I live in Tennessee. Our localized economies are different. We have different opportunities and different lives. race does not matter.

    as for the minimum wage, it seems your economics experience failed to ding in your head. Take a look at a supply vs demand graph. A min wage is a price floor. The equilibrium price helps balance everything out. The price floor requires the equilibrium price to be at the price floor. Currently our equilibrium price is higher than minimum wage, so our current min wage is pointless. A 15 dollar min wage is above the equilibrium price. This would cause a low demand for labor, and a higher supply for jobs.

    Also to finally address your oppression claim. Yeah people can be mistreated by others, and that won’t help them in life. I agree. It’s a thing that happens.

    you can rise out of it, but not all the time.

    Oh and need to address something else I forgot. Paid leave is dumb for long term. In a crisis there should definitely be a paid leave by the government. Shouldn’t not be by the business. That is only because in a crisis like this the business won’t make as much income, and won’t have as much need for employees, due to lack of business, so it probably would want to lay off some people during the crisis, so if someone got sick...why would you pay a worker that’s not needed?

    I say leave it to the government, which is what is happening. A stimulus check.

    that’s another story though.

    Also don’t quote me completely out of context. I said were all humans. And we should work together, only in part of discussing the division politics has created.
    The min wage will not help people. The price equilibrium will eventually fix itself and prices will rise due to supply and demand of labor.

    Min wage does not cause inflation. Fiscal policy does, you should know this. Inflation is caused by the supply of money.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  11. Pacifist

    Pacifist Cynically Insane VIP Bronze

    Wow, I only said you seemed to hate the poor because I couldn't find a better word to describe what you seemed to be pushing. Apologies friend, no need to get all testy with me. First of all, I understand the economics behind a minimum wage. I understand that it creates a surplus of workers, which in turn decreases the quantity demanded for low skilled workers. Yet, this isn't such a bad thing. The workers who can get these jobs will be paid more, and the employers are free to choose candidates based on criteria that is not inherently money based. If you have to pay everyone $15 by law, you might as well hire the best person for the job, not the person who will work for the lowest wage. If the minimum wage caused so many problems for our economy, why is unemployment historically low? Has trump abolished the minimum wage? Did I miss something? Personally though I think that should be handled on a state by state basis. Here in Michigan $15 an hour is kind of high, as the price of living isn't really that high. In california though? Probably should be around there.

    Again, I am not attacking you dude. I know you aint rich. That being said, your boots are fuckin top dollar.
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  13. Rozboon

    Rozboon Forgive and Forget, or just forget. VIP

    What's your opinion on Affirmative Action?
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  14. LeBlonde James

    LeBlonde James Supporter

    Why do you like Yang?

    The beauty of Andrew Yang is that he's so simple.
    He talks about things that we've never heard discussed but we all know is real. How automation takes away thousands of jobs each year.
    He then proposes his solution of the UBI, helping ease the transition into what will probably be a fully automated production system.
    He's very relaxed and friendly about everything, and since he's not a career politician (I could care less about that but) a lot of people like that.
    He's proposed how we expect to pay the *254 billion per month bill, which I'm pretty sure he fluffed the numbers, but still it should've worked somehow.
    Yang was someone that I believed in, who proposed an idea and though he wasn't even close to winning, he still got the idea in the mainstream flow of information.
    That's why I liked Yang. He didn't want to eat the rich, he wasn't the rich. You can start a convo about him and nobody gets hurt in the making. #YangGang

    I also liked Pete Buttigieg, with Tulsi and Kamala coming in a farther 3rd and far far 4th. So imagine my disappointment when Mr. Shell-of-a-Man and Mr. Eat-the-rich were the last ones standing.

    PS; No better way to T someone off then to claim Yang panders to poor people. If he's pandering than how the fuck is anyone else allowed on stage. Eat the rich or Eat the immigrants. Your choices acc to your view.
    Anyway, yeah fuck the poor.
  15. Pacifist

    Pacifist Cynically Insane VIP Bronze

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  16. LeBlonde James

    LeBlonde James Supporter

    Though the question floats into the race category, I'll bite.

    Affirmative Action is good, but I don't know enough to think it works.
    It's to boost people who's lineage has been affected by inequality
    Though de-segregation laws were passed, integration-friendly laws weren't ever considered.
    Technically it is a racist law, but it's to counter previous racist laws. Gov't problem= Gov't solution.
    It's not the best when you're a white male, but you know what was the best when you were a white male? Being given the milk and honey route.
    We don't pay for our ancestors mistakes, lineages suck ass, but we should at least help.
    It's probably not effective at all, but Affirmative Action is a step in a good direction. It's probably just a pencil pusher law but still.
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  17. Bro fuck the poor

    Fuck the rich

    Fuck anyone who isn't me
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  18. Dodley27

    Dodley27 Dolfin VIP Bronze

    That's the plan
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  19. Togo ✿

    Togo ✿ Nobody Gets it VIP Silver

    stop writing essay explaining your point its just a gmod server
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  20. LeBlonde James

    LeBlonde James Supporter

    that's the whole point for the forum Togo, so no
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