Answered Planting Unid's clarification

Discussion in 'Questions & Answers' started by The Law, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. The Law

    The Law You fought the law and the law won. VIP Silver Emerald

    In May of 2015 a ruling was made on the planting of unidentified bodies (reference). It was ruled that the tactic of planting unid'd bodies was legal as an innocent player, but that it would from then on be considered loopholing for detectives to use the tactic due to the "unfair" nature. Here are two inserts from the ruling:
    Since this ruling back in 2015, it has always been my understanding that planting unidentified bodies as an innocent is not considered loopholing, and is considered a legal strategy, one which I've been employing for several years on a frequent basis. However, only recently have I encountered issues with staff classifying this tactic as "loopholing" or "toxic gameplay".

    In an effort to understand why I was being given trouble for something I've been doing for years, I thought perhaps there had been an official rule change that I'd been unaware of, but after searching the forums and the extended rules I found no new information, nor any rule changes or public revisions of this ruling.

    Which then lead me to question the administration directly in hopes to receive a unified definitive answer. However, the responses I received were contradictory, some saying this tactic was loopholing, while others not.

    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
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  2. The Law

    The Law You fought the law and the law won. VIP Silver Emerald

    On a side note, I felt this private message response from @Han Solo did well in confirming my preexisting knowledge on this topic, as well as sum up nicely what the limitations would involve in using such a tactic.
    But again, there are conflicting responses from other administrators stating else wise.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
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  3. Scotty

    Scotty Heroes come and go, but legends are forever. VIP Bronze

    Hey there Law,

    So I believe that I am the one causing confusion on this and I had misread the situation entirely. The situation that I had been told was that it was an AFK you had placed it in front of, not an active player in the game. The tactic is completely allowed to an extent. If you are an innocent this is completely OK as you may be killed for not iding the body as well. The only time that this could be considered loop holing is when you do the same thing as a detective. I apologize if I was the one who created the confusion on this topic.
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  4. The Law

    The Law You fought the law and the law won. VIP Silver Emerald

    No worries @Destiny Blade, you merely helped start the conversation on this grey area. The confusion is not limited to you alone, it seems shared among many of the staff. It's a grey area that could use a definitive statement on the matter, one that I, along with staff members can refer to should a similar situation in the future arise.
    Here's me asking the question point blank in the shoutbox. I was told it was loopholing.
    Here's me asking in game, and confirmed by an admin. I was told it was loopholing.
    Here's me asking the administrator @ant. I was told it was loopholing.
    Here's me asking the administrator @andrewca79. I was told it was loopholing, then later that it wasn't.
    Here's me asking the administrator @Graze. At first I was told it wasn't loopholing as far as he was aware, then later that there was some disagreement between the administration.
    Here's me asking the administrator @Agent A. At first saying that it wasn't loopholing, but later saying there may be some uncertainty and to hold.
    Here's me asking the administrator @Han Solo. He definitively stated it wasn't loopholing, while also giving examples of the limitations.
    As you can see it's not related to any one situation in particular, the question was asked in a general sense and answered in a general sense by all staff members kind enough to give their time in answering. And the responses between the staff were not definitive, some siding one way, while the others siding another, hence why I decided to make this Q&A.

    -But on a side note, I would like to correct some misinformation on the situation between @French Toast and I, as the chronological order of events may have been mixed up in discussion. The situation played out first with a player named "Iron Shah", who did not identify a body whom had just recently been hit by a car. Iron Shah walked up to the area of the body and then promptly stopped (perhaps giving the false appearance of being AFK). I then proceeded to kill this player, and ID the body whom he did not ID. I did not however ID Iron shah's body, instead choosing to pick it up and move it. As I was in the process of moving the body to "plant it", I was caught by French Toast who proceeded to shoot at me (a risk you take when attempting to plant bodies). At which point I dropped the body, ran, and would later kill French. My initial kill on Iron shah therefore had nothing to do with planting any bodies, as the body in question had just recently been hit by a car. However, afterwards I was indeed in the process of planting a body when French shot at me. French would later send me this pm saying:
    Which was the initial statement that started the conversation of whether it is loopholing or not to plant unid's.

    So again, going back on the misinformation here, just so we're clear, there was no planting of bodies near AFK players to loophole around the rules. And you can be witness to this as shown in the following speedup video:

    So I'm not entirely sure how the situation was interpreted as me planting a body next to an AFK then killing them, as this was clearly not the case; but I can understand how situations can either be misinterpreted or lines of communication confused.

    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
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  5. ink

    ink Genuine Happiness VIP Silver

    This thread will remain unanswered until the administration can give you a proper conclusive answer so there isn't confusion left around any point about this or any similar situation involving unided bodies and carrying them.
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  6. Agent A

    Agent A Veni, vidi, vici VIP Silver Emerald

    @Han Solo 's statement is the official verdict/statement for this question.
    Moving unid bodies and camping it as detective is loopholing whereas doing it as innocent is not. Doing such as innocent can be considered as toxic gameplay if done excessively.

    What @Destiny Blade claimed is something akin to this where the person moved unid body to a person and then immediately killed the person for unid body.
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  7. neutral

    neutral Banned VIP

    Hey @The Law ,

    Yikes. I can see that there was indeed some confusion here. Thanks for bringing this to discussion.

    Han Solo really explained it the best here and I do not have much to add to his statement as he both fully, and correctly answered it:

    You're correct in that there hasn't been any rule change regarding this since this thread was originally posted in 2015.

    I'll make sure this gets cleared up with everyone as well.

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  8. DocFox

    DocFox The Best Is Yet To Come VIP Silver Emerald

    Hello SGM,

    I want to tell you all about THIS REPORT and how I came to the conclusion that the tactic the detective utilized was valid.

    So the examples given in this thread were regarding things like jihads and other examples of loopholing. However, the reason I see it as a valid tactic is for the following examples:
    Another scenario:
    As you can tell, in both situations, a Detective should be able to watch a body as a tactic of self-preservation and easy identification of a traitor.

    You may say, "But Mango, how will we take care of the players that abuse this tactic to make it not fun for other players!?" Well, I'm glad you asked. The easiest thing that we have is that "Actively identifying a body" rule and, if someone is going to ID a body, they can't be killed for it by the Detective or it would be RDM. Furthermore, if we see someone using this tactic in a toxic manner, it will be dealt with by means of admin discretion; similar to how Smor's situation went from that report I linked earlier. Even then, my admin asked me for the input and I originally said yes, because I thought it was body-blocking, but it wasn't.

    TL;DR: Detectives can have freewill to not ID a body if they see it as self-preservation and players abusing this will be banned accordingly.

    EDIT: Planting bodies as a Detective still isn't allowed; the bodies should not be manipulated in any way; innocents can plant, within reason.