I wonder about killing from an enclosed room.

Discussion in 'TTT Discussion' started by Hongo, Jan 20, 2019.

  1. Hongo

    Hongo VIP

    If you saw a group of people suddenly start getting picked off by say, an HKSL8, and the bullets are coming from a room close by, a room without an exit, what would you do in that situation?
  2. Zypther

    Zypther #SuitUp VIP Bronze Iron

    well, i didnt see who shot, and i cant know who shot, and therefore i cannot gba, especially since in your appeal you said there were more than 1 person, so i would call mega sus on the people inside, and watch them like a hawk. :D
  3. Hongo

    Hongo VIP

    It's a closed room, theres literally nowhere the killer could've gone since they didn't use a teleporter, therefore whoever is in that small room could not have not seen the traitor picking off several people. That makes everyone in that room GBA.
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  4. Agent Knockout

    Agent Knockout Glory to Poltava! Moderator VIP

    Now, this is a Common Case scenario. I will assume that you tracked where the fire came from, because if you entered and there is just one guy in the room but you never knew if he was associated with the gunshots, you can't kill him for common sense. But if you tracked the gunshots and can 100% conclude that they came from that single-exit room, and there are no signs of any other person indicating they left(teleport marks, or conclude he was the ONLY person in the room while it happened)then you are free to kill him. Only in that case I can see a valid common sense kill.
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  5. Panda With a Gun

    Panda With a Gun CHINA NUMBA ONE Moderator VIP Emerald

    In the case of your appeal it's possible it was another person shooting/ and you didn't see the shooter because of the angle. You also couldn't of called GBA because it's possible someone in there didn't even watch what was happening + you didn't witness the GBA itself.

    I probably would've just t baited the hell out of the guy with HK for a reaction because of how high sus he was from your POV
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  6. Zypther

    Zypther #SuitUp VIP Bronze Iron

    this, thing is there were multiple people
  7. Hongo

    Hongo VIP

    Zypther, if there were multiple people in the room thats an even bigger reason to kill them, because ALL of them would be traitorous for not killing whoever was doing the shooting from inside said room. They would all be GBA
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  8. Hongo

    Hongo VIP

    If you T-baited the guy, he would've had a reason to shoot you. You're legit just justifying him killing you by doing that. The angle was negligible, it was the bathroom in Nuclear Power and nobody was left alive outside of it, there was literally nowhere else the shots could've come from except the bathroom which has no other exit. I saw the guy holding the same gun which was being fired walk up and shut the door, he was in direct line of sight with the dead unid bodies.

    I would have, quite literally, every single reason to shoot whoever did that AND whoever was in the room with them for GBA on several accounts.
  9. Panda With a Gun

    Panda With a Gun CHINA NUMBA ONE Moderator VIP Emerald

    That's not how GBA works in this situation
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  10. Hongo

    Hongo VIP

    Like, okay. So whenever I'm a traitor in nuclear, and I decided to shoot from the cover of the bathroom and then shut the door after killing someone, nobody would see me shoot since I would've done it from within the bathroom, but they'd hear the shot, see it come from the bathroom, and then likely see me shut the door.

    You're saying I should report whoever comes in and kills me, because its RDM?
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  11. Agent Knockout

    Agent Knockout Glory to Poltava! Moderator VIP

    Oh, well then common case can't do the trick, and panda already described the GBA case.
  12. Hongo

    Hongo VIP

    How does that change anything though? If theres multiple people (Two, in this case) then they would all be GBA for not killing the guy who was shooting from within the room with them
  13. Dani

    Dani Impersonating Staff VIP

    Come on, at least clarify what you mean instead of coming into the thread just to say that you're on the opposing end of the argument.

    Unlike some mods, I am now going to take a minute to explain to you why I think it wasn't GBA, Hongo:

    1. To be allowed to kill someone who is shooting, you need to know what they are shooting at, because only then would it be a traitorous act.
    2. If you witness someone shooting and do not know what they are shooting at, perhaps because you are facing 180° away from them and they are shooting through a narrow doorway towards the other side of a room next door, then you are not witnessing a traitorous act.
    3. If you are not witnessing a traitorous act, then you are not GBA.

    Just to clarify: The exact wording of the GBA rule is "A player is GBA if they are found to be witnessing or able to witness another player commit a traitorous act and not attempting to take action [...]".
    The "or able to witness" probably refers to cases where every piece of information needed is happening on the GBA person's screen, but they're looking away IRL because they're taking a sip of coffee or because they're just zoning out. It does not mean "the AFK person in the room could have turned around and witnessed the guy shooting and they could have checked who they were shooting at". Maybe @MangoTango could tell us if this is what is meant by "or able to" or if I am misunderstanding it.

    I'd say that what you did in that particular case was indeed RDM, albeit a type of RDM I would probably also commit if I was a bit jumpy at the moment.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
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  14. Glyph

    Glyph Steyr AUG Fetishist VIP

    The matter of "able to witness" raises another question for me, one that I've never actually had to ask in-game but one that might be good to know; what... counts as able to witness? Is a player whose model is physically within line of sight of an event, even if they aren't looking that way, GBA? Probably not if they're far away, right? But what about if they're right next to the scene and can easily hear what's going on? If they technically never saw a lick of it, are they really GBA? (I would say yes, since they were right there and could have turned around, and the traitor did nothing to kill them/they did nothing to stop obvious traitor acts unfolding right next to them). Does able to witness just mean that you could have seen the event in full if only you'd just turned around, or does it mean that you in-game saw the event even if you out-of-game didn't? The former makes more sense, because the latter is harder to enforce; we can't know what is and isn't on the player's screen at all times, for instance people with higher FoVs might see things that players with lower ones wouldn't.
  15. Teroxa

    Teroxa Vier Fäuste für ein Halleluja Lead Admin VIP Silver

    Dani got a point here.
    That's how I see it aswell.

    To sum up my thoughts:
    If there are 2 people in the room, but you didn't see what happened in there, you only saw shots coming out of the room, they are not automatically GBA.
    There is a chance the other guy didn't actually witness the t-act or couldn‘t react according to our rules.

    There's no way to guarantee this isn't the case since you didn't see what happened, so you may not kill them.

    Imagine this: You're in a room with another guy. You hear him shooting, maybe you even hear someone die, but don't see the shots because you had your back turned, the point shop open or for a similar reason.
    As soon as you hear that, you obviously immediately become very suspicious of the guy. You start watching him and make sure he doesn't try to kill you. But you can't do anything, since you would kill on suspicion if you were to shoot him.
    Then, another player enters the room and sprays both of you down, saying he killed you because you didn't react to a t-act.

    All the criteria mentioned above are the same in this situation. But wouldn't you still feel like you've been unfairly killed?
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  16. Hongo

    Hongo VIP

    Yes, but the guy who I believed was GBA didn't report me, the traitor who was doing the killing / whom I saw close the door with the unid bodies infront of it reported me and that is what got me slain.
  17. Dani

    Dani Impersonating Staff VIP

    Yes, because the killer could have been the other guy. You took a 50/50 chance.
  18. Pacifist

    Pacifist Waa Waa Lead Admin VIP Bronze

    Sounds like you saw shooting, traced the bullets and just guessed. In this case, you'd have to trace the bullets perfectly and make sure that no one entered or exited the room. Meaning you have to keep eyes on the shots and the entrance/exit. Least how I see it. I don't know, I could be wrong. I don't know what the situation is.
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