Doc and Xpro's Debate Thread.

Hello everyone. This thread is my attempt to provide a venue where a lively debate between myself and @Xproplayer that started in the Shoutbox may continue at a pace that is conducive to discussion. What with the speed of messages back and forth, and the messages interjected by others, I found it too difficult to do this topic justice in the SB.

So, I invite @Xproplayer to join me here. I will stress I am not seeking to insult him, and am genuinely interested in carrying on this discussion. However, I hope he will join me in being civil and reasonable, to take this opportunity to bring about productive discourse, and not resort to the frantic shouting, for lack of better words, he exhibited in the SB. Of course, he will disagree that this is what he was doing, and I will defer, but that is what it came across as, and I was unable to answer his questions amid such conditions. It is for interest of doing so that I have created this thread.

So, Xpro, if, as you stated in the SB you would, you only show up to say I lost the argument, it will only demonstrate how fragile the beliefs you prop your argument up with are, and how you have no interest in talking reasonably like adults here. Once again, I say this not to insult @Xproplayer but to show what he has said, at least in the light of how I interpreted it. If you really want to have this debate, here is the place, now is the time. If you come to call others losers, it only reflects such upon yourself. I wish to humor you by being here, and hope you will return the favor.

As for the interaction of others in this thread, I cannot deny you the right to add a response here, but I hope you will respect the purpose of this thread and not derail it. I wholeheartedly welcome any and all constructive additions.



So, Xpro, if you have made it his far, I shall begin.



As I see it, and correct me if I am wrong, you disagree with most of my views, political, moral, etc., but not all. Moreover, you view me as a brick wall, irrational. You don't think I can be reasoned with and that I will respond to any irrefutable answer, by dodging the question, changing the subject, or by pulling a trump card, if you will, of some insane, unreasonable, outlandish postition.

I would first like to point out, as @nilz did, you exhibited a tendency to jump about topic to topic. I will assume you had in mind a good reason for this, but such was not conveyed. Therefore, I will ascribe this behavior to you having a strategy of trying to overwhelm with "noise", rather than having any solid argument. Of course, I invite you to disprove me here.

You also, by the end got, as it seemed, somewhat heated. If you are looking to convince anyone of anything, I would advise you to modify this behavior. You will, and did, make missteps that will only setback your argument and credibility. I know this all too well from my own personal experience. I truly hope you will see through all of this I am trying to help you, and not to mock you. I could mock you all day long, but what good would that do, for you or myself? I hope you will come to this realization yourself.



I will here address the "exercise" you conducted. I knew full well when I "agreed" to this fiasco that you were only attempting to bait me into a situation where you could dance up and down, saying "told you so!" at the end, which is what you most certainly did. As I see it, I had two choices, play along, or have you revel in me not daring to take part in your "exercise", saying that it proved I was too stubborn, not open, and couldn't have my mind changed. So, I played along.

As to the content of your "exercise", on top of it not being relevant, as you misinterpret my intentions, it was also fundamentally flawed as an experiment, as well as being conducted in a venue that was entirely chaotic (hence, this thread).

As to the flaw, you went into it with no real interest in finding any answers, any truth. You went into it with your preconceived notion of the subject to be "tested", and your preconceived notion of the "result" that would be found. You weren't about to let anything change your mind as to these notions, as you only wished to blindly see the result you were set upon. This is the exact thing you set out to accuse me of. It would also appear a large part of the exhibit you made of yourself was an attempt to show off.



You accused me of being unchangeable, of not listening to any reason, that if I was confronted with inescapable truth, I would just pull some random end-all that would rid myself of having to concede that I was wrong. In reality, Xpro, this is you.

• You failed to present anything useful or objectively true.
• You then failed to expand upon what confusing tidbits you did throw out, as noted by others as well. You instead changed the subject to continue in an endless cycle, in order to present the image of yourself as knowledgeable, or, as you put it, "intellectual", or "high level".
• You would do the above, and then storm out with a righteous statement, intended to prevent anyone from challenging you, and to give the impression that you were right. In reality, you ran, like a coward.
• You would bark and bark the same point, refusing to listen to mentions of the obvious flaws, and then demand everyone play only by your rules, for example to just answer your questions, and do it in the proper manner, determined by you, or your opponent was a "loser".
• You would insult others by saying that you would not engage with them, because they were not "intellectual" or "high level" enough. We have yet to see you exhibit such traits.

You then accused me of all the above, and refused to listen or see any other perspective, behaving in exactly the manner which you accused me of.

This is sad, Xpro. Once again, I am not trying to insult or mock you, which you made no attempt to hide was part of your intentions, but sincerely to help you. The truth, truly, will set you free.



That will be all for my first installment here. I hope you will be decent enough to engage with me here. We touched briefly on quite a few topics I am very interested to go into detail with you on. I will not respond again tonight, as it is quite late, and I have a lot of work to do, so I need at least a little sleep. But I will do so in the morning, or sometime tomorrow.

Unfortunately, I greatly fear that you will not show here, or that you will only do so to proclaim me the "loser" of the argument because I did not do exactly as you liked.

I hope this will not be the case, but if it is, I will have to abandon this attempt, as it will have been shown trying to reason with you was fruitless and that I can do no more than I have already done.

At the same time, I do have faith that the above fear will have been unfounded. If you prove anything to me, prove me wrong on that. The ball is in your court.






You are now probably wondering, or itching to respond, "You still didn't answer my question." Well, in your own words, do YOU see the big picture, Xpro? I will give you a line break and a spoiler to think about it before it is spelled out for you.

Spoiler: Here is the answer to changing the mind of someone like you

It is my whole above post.

1. First and foremost your intentions must be good. If you don't set out to do your fellowman good, than you are, crudely, nothing but a troll, and if you are actively against him, evil. Your intentions must be to bring about better understanding of the truth, to shed light on the darkness, to bring your fellowman to greater good.
2. You must be courteous. Constructive debate only exists where both parties respect each other throughout the sharing of opposing ideas. I hope you have noticed that, in the SB, and here, I have tried my best to refrain from denigrating you, either in calling you names, or otherwise belittling you. I have accommodated your premises, I have tried to follow your line of thinking. I have stressed how, though my words may be misconstrued by their nature, my true intentions are to try to help you to the truth. Of course, you have to take my word for that, and I hope you will, as I can't otherwise prove it to you. It is worth noting none of the above principles has been evident in your contributions to our exchange.
3. You must state the facts of the subject, which I have done above.
4. You must try to relate to the perspective of the opposing party, which is what I tried my best to do at the start of my argument above.
5. You then present your view, respectfully, to point out how the opposing view is incorrect, providing what evidence necessary.
6. You close, inviting your opponent to counter your assertions.

If your opponent was right, and you came to the table with an open mind, you may shake hands, thank him for his enlightenment, and walk away with a new view.

If your opponent was wrong, and he refused to listen to truth, then you have done all you can do, and must walk away and hope/pray for the best for your opponent. It is at this point, if you were dealing with evil that was threatening harm to people, you would resort to force, but this is not one of those cases, and most aren't. So, you would simply walk away, having done all you could.

We are talking about technicalities here, but this is going to come down to objective right and wrong. Whether or not that will be a subject you and I debate on, that is what will separate our two opposing sets of views. Obviously, both of us steadfastly believe we are the one who is right and the other is wrong. The only way we will find out who is right and who is wrong, and if the one who is wrong will be receptive of the right, is debate.

 

[removed]


And now I've realized I don't care about changing your opinions, I've skimmed more of your OP and you clearly have more free time than me.

 

TLDR plz I have other things to do

 

Damn, it sucks reading posts like mine

 

ok

 

+1 keep arguing

 

Boi do you not realise xpro is just a meme at this point




Ain't nobody gonna read a 2000 word essay about him

 

tldr anyone?

 

yes me, in the post above yours

 

Wtf is with people here and walls of text?

 

Can you write my essays for me?

 

hell yeah

 

I saw the op quite long so I scrolled down to the bottom for a TLDR and saw none. Can someone get on that.

 

Well looks like xpro has taken the lead in the discussion/debate.

Let's see what doc can say in rebuttal.

 

It's just a lot of fluff around a simple core, so here you go. You're welcome.

TL;DR: Doc disagrees with Xpro, and says Xpro won't engage in a real discussion of.. whatever it is.

 

k

 

https://www.seriousgmod.com/conversations/add?to=Xproplayer