Lets say we are 2 Innocents (Role doesnt really matter for B) A and B. A, accidentally starts cooking a frag and B Opens fire on A for it but doesnt directly hit. A then throws the Frag at B in response and Kills B with it. Is A at fault for accidentally cooking the Frag causing the commotion or not? o.o Also a Similiar Situation. Instead of Cooking the Frag, Player A throws it near player B, and B responds by shooting at player A before Dying to the Frag. Would it make the Kill with the frag allowed since player B shot back for the Frag Throw? Just came to think of it while on the servers and was Courious how the situations would be handled o.o
Case 1: Since the player started cooking the grenade before they were going to throw it and it damaged the other player only after they opened fire they would still be responsible for starting the initial act of RDM. Player B is justified in shooting in self-protection from the grenade. Case 2: Not allowed since they threw the grenade which started the response from player B. Player A who threw the grenade would be slain. As always, these reports can be handled differently in the game depending on the different variables.
The ruling for grenades is that they are treated as if the damage is dealt when you activate it. If you have no reason to throw it at someone when you start cooking, but get one mid-cook (e.g. they bait you), it's rdm to hit them with your grenade Because you didn't have a reason in the first place. This is also why you have to warn before activating a grenade/explosive. EDIT: Removed disclaimer as I verified my response.
These responses don't make any sense because a frag could be used for something else initially with the use being changed because someone baiting you. Example: Player A is cooking a grenade to throw at the pipes on canyon, Player B shoots at Player A and in doing so commits a traitorous act, Player A turns around and throws it at Player B killing/damaging Player B. Player A was never going to harm someone with the grenade initially, the intent of the throw only changed when Player B committed a traitorous act. Why should a player be punished for using a grenade for killing someone who is committing a traitorous act? Why should it matter that the grenade was already being cooked? This is simply equivalent to T Baiting. So if you are cooking a grenade to throw at the pipes and someone starts shooting you, what are you supposed to do in your world? Purposely avoid them with the deadly weapon you already have cooked? I know that the pipes on canyon aren't a valid reason to throw a nade in terms of xfire, but your intent when cooking can be completely different than your intent when throwing. I know you said this, but there is nothing to back this up in the public rules, perhaps staff discussion? And it makes me doubtful that this is actually protocol because what you said below directly contradicts the extended rules. You said that ^^^, but Opal says the following in the extended rules. The extended rules directly contradict what you said.
This is not a discussion, but the rules do in fact support it. The following excerpt explains the ruling. If you want to discuss or change the ruling, please start a discussion in the appropriate forum. I'm at work currently, so I don't have access to the discussion I had with Opalium regarding this, but I would be happy to share the more in depth explanation with you later today.
While warnings are for crossfire and probably don't have anything to do with this rule: - Your example would be RDM, Player A didn't have a reason to throw the frag at Player B before Player A started cooking the grenade. Edit: Removed the answer that was wrong. (honestly, thread could use a clean-up)
So in a scenario where Player A cooks and throws a Frag at Player B for shooting at Player A, but Player A also shoots at Player B for Shooting at him, then Player B gets damaged or killed by the Frag after Player A responded with shooting back at Player B. Is that still considered RDM? Cause if it is, it sounds really dumb o.o
I think with the following guidelines and previous responses, the rule will have been sufficiently clarified. Here are the general scenarios that can happen for you as an innocent player, in regards to throwing grenades, and whether the result is RDM or not: Spoiler: Scenarios 1) If you activate a damaging grenade with VALID reason and throw it at your intended target, that is NOT RDM. If you did NOT warn, any crossfire damage would be RDM. 2) If you activate a damaging grenade with VALID reason but change your target to someone that has already done something traitorous, that is NOT RDM. If you did NOT warn, any crossfire damage would be RDM. 3) If you activate a damaging grenade with VALID reason then change your target to someone that has committed a traitorous act after the activation, that is NOT RDM, as per 2nd of August, 2018. If you did NOT warn, any crossfire damage would be RDM. The reason this one is exempt is due to you having acted on a traitorous action. For more info, see the recent rule change, linked HERE. 4) If you activate a damaging grenade with INVALID reason, that is RDM for all damage dealt. Regardless of warning and target. As for the situation presented by Voca, I will present the rule and compare the situation presented to the four scenarios in the above spoiler. Currently, the general ruling is: If player B had already shot at A before A started cooking, as is the case in your described scenario, then it would be scenario 1 or 2, and therefore not RDM - though crossfire damage could be RDM if you did not warn prior to activation. If player A starts cooking the frag for no valid reason, then it is scenario 4 - and so it is RDM. You cannot bait someone by activating a damaging grenade and then kill them with that grenade, because you did not have valid reason to activate the grenade. If you had a different initial target, whom you had valid reason to throw a nade at, it becomes scenario 3, and you may change your target and react to the new T-act. EDIT v2: Post is now fully up to date and reflects the current rulings on different grenade scenarios, as per August 2nd, 2018.
I’m going to mark this back to unanswered for now. Fact of the matter is, this isn’t covered in our current rules. I’ll update this once it’s discussed.
Also something I'm curious off. When does the log register the grenade as being thrown, when the pin is pulled or when the grenade leaves the players hand?
Shot logs register when the pin on a grenade is pulled and the damage logs show when the grenade is fully thrown.
A rule was added to address this rare scenario: This means, that you must have witnessed a traitorous act before activating the grenade in order for any kills from the grenade to be valid. If someone commits another traitorous act within that period- you are free to change targets and kill the other player for their T-act instead (one of the scenarios that Siddo provided). Please keep in mind that all regular rules on warnings still apply.
