Denied Brown's Appeal

Discussion in 'TTT Ban Appeals' started by Brown, Nov 15, 2020.

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  1. Brown

    Brown New Member

    Your In Game Nickname:
    Your Steam ID:
    Which Server:
    Why you should be unbanned:
    Banned for an unconventional t-bind
    "X is a traitor!
    no kos"

    My case made in pm chat:
    "I use it as a kos bind"

    "I only kos people who are kosable"

    "Either I follow the kos, whoever recognizes the kos does, or no one does. If nothing else, my body last words read 'X is a traitor!,' and the kos is valid. (RDM is never the result of a properly used t-bind.)"

    "If I abuse the bind, i.e. random kos, you ban me for RDM, not the bind."

    I'd like to know which rules I'm breaking if any, and how this warrants any warning/a 14 day ban.​
    Evidence of Innocence:
    Let damage/chat logs show I've only used my traitor bind to kos traitors, most of which I or my innocent teammates follow. There is no recorded instance of my bind (not to be confused with my misjudgement) leading to the RDM of an innocent​
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  2. dazza

    dazza Banned VIP Bronze

  3. Pixie.Dimi

    Pixie.Dimi Sleepy and in need of cuddles VIP

    Alright I will get back to you tomorrow or the day after as I have had a rough morning.

    You have been warn many times as well about the kill bind you use and how much you tend to spam it.
  4. Pixie.Dimi

    Pixie.Dimi Sleepy and in need of cuddles VIP

    So you were banned for toxic gameplay (discretion from Lordy). You were warned by multiple staff not to use that bind as you have got innocents killed and have been banned before as a result. The first part is ok (if kosing a T or if you are a T kosing random innocents) but you have used it on random players for no reason. The reason for the ban is simple, I warned you a while ago about it and even had to slay you a few times for false kos. What reason do I have to believe you do not mean to be toxic? As after the first few warnings and slays, you should know not to do this at all.
  5. RyanHymenman

    RyanHymenman Conscript the women and kids Administrator VIP Silver

    You have also been warned by myself on at least 2 occasions to change that bind. If it was only used to do valid KOSes, then it would be fine. But both times I was getting complaints that you were just kosing random people.
  6. Brown

    Brown New Member

    I'm sure it's not enough for me to say I have no recollection of random kosing people, but both of these statements seem to have been pulled from thin-air. I've never been slain for random kosing, let alone on this server, let alone by pixie. I don't remember being banned from this server at any time either, maybe I'm wrong there. If you claim something like that happening, can you at least provide proof. I'm sure there's a record of me being slain "a few times." Simply assuming I've abused it makes no sense here, it's a t-bind, abuse of a t-bind is the same regardless of the bind message, evidence of abuse would be concrete if you had any.

    I'm claiming the bind was never abused, please prove that I've abused it, if what pixie says is true and our only interaction in the game resulted in my slay and ban, there should be evidence. I was not slain during any game for random kos.

    Otherwise I'm making the same case as you saying that abusing the bind is bannable. If I'd abused the bind, I'd be banned for RDM by now

    I've neither abused the bind nor been banned for rdm
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  7. RyanHymenman

    RyanHymenman Conscript the women and kids Administrator VIP Silver

    I do agree. The abuse of it would be the biggest issue with this, and I will try to find evidence to back this up, but seeing as I've recorded over 50h of gameplay since last playing with you (and since I last recall warning you), I dont have high hopes. Either way my evidence, personally, was not part of the decision to ban you, I am simply stating that I have warned you in the past, and have witnessed other staff warning you. My question to you is, why do you have this bind, and why wont you change it when asked by staff?
  8. Brown

    Brown New Member

    Simple answer is I like to use it in other servers where I've never gotten pushback, it doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't break any rules. People who've seen it fulfill the kos, people who haven't question why I'd say no kos when the person is killing me. Sometimes the message comes out funny in live chat:
    "Brown: X is a traitor!
    *DEAD* Brown: no kos"
    Started as a bit of an insider on moat before they closed, people spamming "x is a t no kos" in vc, just reminds me of the time

    I ask for evidence because until now I think the assumption was that I was abusing the bind, when there was never any proof (because I wasn't). I think both warning and ban made the same assumption, wrongfully, even if a witness might say it random, a simple "who shot who" and "was it valid or not" would show otherwise. And if these weren't the assumptions, I was more or less being warned for doing nothing that would call for a warning.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  9. RyanHymenman

    RyanHymenman Conscript the women and kids Administrator VIP Silver

    Pixie has asked me to add this on his behalf. This is a screenshot from Voca

    Edit: After this, unless brought back into it to answer any questions or if I find my evidence, I'll be staying out of this appeal. I was just stating that I have warned you in the past. I will leave the rest of this appeal up to Pixie and the admin that gave the discretion
  10. Voca

    Voca o.o Administrator VIP

    I have warned you several times to change this bind of yours.
    The above image is from 4th of November o.o
    I warned you a few times before as well in the past o.o

    Now the reason I have warned you is not due to abuse. But due to the confusion and toxicity it can bring to the server, as well as it can lead other players into toxicgameplay.

    By our rules, if you knowingly follow a KoS that is called off, you get in trouble gor toxic gameplay.

    It also makes it more difficult fir staff to investigate if a player knew the KoS was called off.

    Therefor your bind causes the constant issue of players either not knowing if they should follow the KoS or not, or if they should act like they didnt know it was called off and risk toxic gameplay for following a called off KoS.
  11. Brown

    Brown New Member

    Going into super-duper technicalities here-

    Acknowledging that the bind including "no kos" still acts as a kos bind, and is treated as a kos bind via rules (since abuse is rdm), you could make the case that anyone who follows the callout is free from blame in doing so. Keep in mind there are other means of cancelling a kos which I have not attached to my t-bind, which, in my experience, function as they would in any case.

    Your hypothetical being: I kos x via bind, innocent kills x, x reports innocent for following kos
    The innocent could justifiably claim "'no kos' is attached to a valid kos by bind, I am free to follow that kos," and the game goes on as it would normally

    I'd like to ask, with this being a hypothetical case and not one that I've ever witnessed, is it fair to ban solely in anticipation of it happening, given its rarity and unlikeliness of ever actually happening?

    "Anticipated toxic gameplay" sounds no more plausible than something like "anticipated rdm."
    An innocent might place a picked up c4 and set it to 10 minutes, but you can only ban them once someone has actually taken damage, died etc. from them placing it right. A ban from that is usually case by case, why isn't this?
    I'll say I don't think I've seen a T actually dispute my kos to an innocent, as both innocents AND traitors typically recognize my kos as valid.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  12. iizzy

    iizzy Pastel Pink Punk VIP

    Brown, I'm going to throw my two cents in because it seems you're still stuck on the RDM aspect of this. The part that I'm hung up on, is that you have been warned, ad nauseum, to change your bind. Admins have warned you. Pixie has warned you. I have warned you. Basically our entire mod team at one point or another has been made aware of your bind as people over and over again have gone to get admin discretion to warn you for it. And yet, you refuse to do something that takes barely even 5 seconds to do.

    Even without the RDM aspect, it still causes confusion. I have had to explain, over, and over, and over, and over again, that your bind is what's saying "no kos" because people constantly say "oh no no he said no kos so nevermind it." It causes constant confusion (in a manner which, if we really wanted to stretch it, could be considered metagaming as you are taking a vital tool away from fellow innocents who don't understand your joke), but the part that I'm the most concerned about is that, with mods warning you, and admins, and probably a lead admin or two at some point, you have remained heldfast to not perform a task that would take literal seconds. You're willing to sit in a ban appeal and type novel after novel defending your use of this bind, but you won't take 3 seconds to save 100 people a headache, and that's the bottom line.
  13. Zareaper

    Zareaper Lord of the underworld VIP

    1. KOS is when you call a player out as a Traitor.

    In our extended rules this is the first thing under the kos rule. Now when your bind is calling someone a traitor thats a valid kos and then it saying no kos still makes things confusing especially when you cant cancel a kos officially
  14. Brown

    Brown New Member

    And I'd argue it takes just as little of an effort to let me be, watch a game or two, see that no rules are broken and carry on. A mods discretion shouldn't reach beyond gameplay-harming occurrences, if the bind causes confusion among moderators but otherwise changes nothing to a given players experience and breaks no rules, it does best to leave it alone, imo.

    For metagaming- the bind either acts as a kos when acknowledged, or has the same effect as me leaving no kos at all. There are other means of cancelling a kos, which I've used like I said, that work. They are usually acknowledged if made independently of a t-bind. It neither helps the traitors, nor hurts the innocents, when used properly, no more than if I had made no kos at all.
  15. Brown

    Brown New Member

    Is this true?
  16. Zareaper

    Zareaper Lord of the underworld VIP

    1. KOS is when you call a player out as a Traitor.
    2. You may kill anyone who is KOS'd, assuming that person is not a detective.
    3. Responsibility of the damage done to a KOS'd player is on the player who called the KOS.
    4. Repeating a KOS may deem you as the original source. This may include asking questions about a KOS.
    5. You may not attack a Detective for calling a KOS; they must call the KOS and then be actively shooting at you first.

    1. VALID KOS: Explicitly expresses that a player is a traitor or they should be killed in a single text or voice transmission. Partial names can be used as a valid KOS (Mango vs MangoTango). KOS/KO5/KOZ are valid KOSes.
    2. SELF-KOS: A KOS against yourself is valid and you can be killed for it. Can be punished under admin discretion if excessive.
    3. SELF-IMPLICATION: Saying something about yourself that implies you're a traitor. Considered a valid KOS if done in present or past tense. Can be punished under admin discretion if excessive.
    4. LAST WORDS: Can be acted on if called as a valid KOS.
    5. DETECTIVE PASSIVE: If a Detective is ACTIVELY DAMAGING someone, it is considered a passive KOS.
  17. Brown

    Brown New Member

    I'll say I didn't know you could kos off of self-implication, seems obvious but you'd probably get reported for it.

    One thing to look at is "last words" being kosable, and that my bind produces "x is a traitor" as my last words 100% of the time. Technically anyone who ID's my body is free to kos off of my bind, if not based off of my other arguments

    I appreciate the fair trial thus far for the record
  18. Pixie.Dimi

    Pixie.Dimi Sleepy and in need of cuddles VIP

    Alright Brown,
    So you know you have been warned by multiple staff for your kos bind and have not listened to any of us hence your ban. Many staff have replied to your ban appeal stating they have warned you for this bind.
    If you agree to change your kos bind then I am more than happy to accept this ban appeal ( I would not void it just in case you do it again so the next time it happens it will be your second offence) but if you do not agree to change your kos bind I will not be accepting this appeal.
    Many thanks and sorry that I have not replied for a while.
  19. Pixie.Dimi

    Pixie.Dimi Sleepy and in need of cuddles VIP

    I have waited for your reply but you have not responded. I will give you another 2 hours to respond. If not I will be closing this ban appeal and denying it as I have already waited over 24hrs to hear a response from you.
    Many thanks.
  20. Pixie.Dimi

    Pixie.Dimi Sleepy and in need of cuddles VIP

    Alright so I have not heard anything back from you regarding what option you wanted to do. So I am closing this appeal and denying it as I have gave you plenty of time to respond to me.
    If you like please contact me on discord - Pixie_Boy_Dimitri#5968
    Many thanks.
    Appeal- Denied
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