Rejected Ban appeals handled by another staff member of the same or higher rank

Title really. In cases of like a 1st case of RDM and leave the original banner can state they support an unban. But if the original banner stands behind it it's up to another staff member to make the final verdict.

I'm sure plenty of you will simply state that it's been this way for so long and it's fine, but just because something has been around for a while doesn't mean it can't be made better. The fact is this creates a more unbiased experience.

 

the problem with this is that the person who ultimately understands the situation the most was probably the one who did the ban. Be kind of silly to let someone come in to make a decision when they could be missing a lot of context by not being there. Also, the banner usually has all the evidence saved so they would be required to reply anyways. So basically you'd need 2 mods or an admin to handle every ban appeal which I can't get behind.

edit: even if this was implemented, the mods in question are just going to talk to eachother and come to an agreement before posting anything. This won't stop any bias.

 

Spoiler: Long version

While I see the point to an 'unbiased experience', I don't believe appeals are currently being handled unfairly.
This would only lead to unnecessary double-processing of every appeal.
If you believe your appeal should be reconsidered, you can reach out to the issuer (potentially also to their superior).

As Silent already mentioned above me, the one who was there witnessing it is has the most complete recollection of the person, what happened, etc.
When handling appeals, there are many things you ought to be considering;
Was it accidental or intentional?
Was it major or minor? How did it affect the round?
Is there a history (e.g. RDM and leave 3rd).
How was the player? Trolling, playing normally, ..?
And more.

You say they should be unbiased.
I don't think there's mentionworthy bias as is, but whatever small bias there may be is not preventing fair appeals.

A nice player who accidentally RDM'd thrice, e.g. due to misunderstanding or lacking rule knowledge, is less likely to ruin the server environment. Than.. say, someone who intentionally RDM'd thrice because it would be a funny joke hahah :^).

TL;DR:
Could someone else, provided the evidence, make that call?
Yes.

Is it necessary?
No.
Ban appeals are already unofficially peer-reviewed, as most staff read forum appeals/reports, even if it's not their own.

-1

 

Part of every appeal is posting all the evidence.

 

Before I answer, what brought this suggestion to mind?

 

This is more useful towards discretion based bans, not just standard rdm and leave bans. An example I once kind of "ghosted" and @POP STAR let me off with a warning since he knew the intent wasn't ghosting, but if he had banned me and I posted an appeal, every other admin would have simply stated that it was up to that admin. This also allows for bias to happen which HAS happened. And I personally feel that many staff are less inclined to mark reports as valid because if a staff member has enough valid reports the playerbase would call for a demotion. Which basically means that it appears easy to abuse.

 

Just a thought in my mind, I haven't been banned as you can see. But my main idea is due to prior biases that have happened. And I recalled when I got banned on another community a couple years back the appeal process involved another staff member of the same rank and a superior.

 

-1

 

Imma give this a -1 as I feel only the person who banned the appealed can get the feel for the situation as they were there and they have the evidence. To implement this would be a waste of other staff's time and resources. Not to mention if I got the mod like diekasta handling my bans we may as well just unban and void them all, takes an eternity.

 

all bans should have sufficient evidence behind them, meaning any other staff member can learn about the situation. Additionally I'm not saying a superior being required, it could easily be a same level member unless it was a long(ish) ban, so I'm not sure how Diekasta fits in here.

 

He was just an example as he is not the only staff member in history to take an eternity to respond to things.

 

I'd like some thoughts rather than just a post, if you want to just add a -1 use the rating system.

 

Like most of my fellow community members have said I do not like this idea. The person who implemented the ban should be able to decide if the ban stays or if it goes. There have been times that the staff team has talked to the staff member who issued the ban and had it redone or lifted entirely. A very recent example is here and a personal example of this happening found here
Not a fan of the idea. Sorry man.

 

Then the member who handles the appeal wouldn't be a staff member that takes a while? Additionally unless you are a lead or owner you should always be on enough to maintain basic hours requirements so you shouldn't take that long.

 

It seems like your first example was evidence based. This mostly applies to discretion based bans where currently any other admin would just shrug and say it wasn't their call. Additionally ties back to my whole thing of it's not practical to report an admin due to the aversion to valid reports within the staff team against staff members.

 

You are right it was their call. The admins looked at it and said something wasnt right. They talked to that mod and they overturned it.

 

Seems like it would needlessly complicate an already simple process. If someone doesn't like the outcome of their appeal, they are equally welcome to converse with the staff member, or their superior in private.

 

Yea which usually never works given my previous points. I once had to report a lead admin to get a proper verdict.

 

I am against this as it even if it is meant to be good not only make it more complex than it need to but also comes of as that staff isnt trusted to do their job in a fair way. I honestly think it would be unpleasant to be staff if the system always is made to avoid bias by forcing you to be dependant on others to do simple things like this. If you dont agree with the outcome you can take it to their superior and I honestly like that more than this.

 

Admins take ages to do staff reports as it is, no ban appeals would ever get done.

I do agree with you somewhat, it really angst’s me when someone denies and RDM & Leave first offence just because they can when In reality all you’ve done is drive a player away but other than that if an appeal is handled awfully you can be your ass someone will bring it up.

My only qualm is the 1st offence thing, I’d love to see a staff ruling implemented that for most cases a rdm&leave first should be accepted because they clearly have the intention of playing if they made the effect to make a forum account etc.

Just my tuppence on the situation, I do see where you’re coming from, just a little impractical.