A Minor Thought

Discussion in 'TTT Discussion' started by Voca, Oct 13, 2018.

  1. Voca

    Voca o.o Moderator VIP

    So something been bothering me the most of the day.
    So earlier today (Saturday) I joined an almost full EuNilla, there was a lot of staff on when I joined, 1 admin, a lot of mods and 1 or 2 Trials, the server was a bit chaotic as there seemed to be a lot of RDMs going on at the time and lots of reports to handle.

    At some point A t buddy activated a T trap shortly after the round started, that ended up killing 2 T buddies and Damaging a 3rd one. It was during round 3 or 4 of that map, the map was over and they still hadnt recieved a slay, I get there was a trial on and thought they hadnt gotten to the report yet, waited a bit on the next map, until I noticed that newer reports were being handled, and the guy still hadnt recieved a single slay. There was still about 5 or 6 staff on at that time, so I messaged them in admin chat about the report, didnt get a single answer from anyone, then map changed a 2nd time, and I said again in admin chat (Less staff was on at that time) still no answer.
    Map changed a 3rd time so I decided to message a staffmember directly over steam, sadly they had to leave to deal with some private stuff and asked me to bring it up with another staff member who were online, at that point the map had changed a 4th time, and I brought up the forgotten report with another mod, who then had to leave as well, then 2 new mods shows up, and that point I just couldnt be assed to bring it up with another staff member especially since those 2 werent there when the thing occured but the rest were. And it had almost been 5 maps ago the incident happened.

    And it just bothers me a little that with the amount of staff that was on at that certain time, that a potential mass RDM x3 on T buddies, went by unnoticed and a report getting overlooked and completely forgotten.

    I understand that the server was chaotic at the time, and that there was a trial on who had to look through every report and give his verdict.

    But given that there was good amount of staff on, with a lot of reports to handle + the fact that a report went by without getting handled.

    There gotta be better times where you focus on training Trials, and on chaotic times focus on handling reports so you dont risk the chaos running over the time a trial needs to handle reports.
     
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  2. Pacifist

    Pacifist Very Strange Lead Admin VIP+ Bronze

    we are trying out a new approach to dealing with rdmers. we are ignoring them in the hopes they just leave and never come back.

    in all seriousness you got to put the trial mod on a server and make em do stuff. Stressful situations and chaotic servers are bound to happen eventually. trial by fire is the only way to really train someone. it is disappointing to hear that your report didn't get handled, but you know it happens sometimes. Us staff are humans too, we do stupid shit sometimes.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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  3. Sly

    Sly Onward and Upward to Greater Glory VIP Silver

    Also maybe the report was dealt with and the player just didn’t get a slay for it. If he warned for activating the trap no slay would be applied.
     
  4. Noccam :^)

    Noccam :^) Member

    But then a simple "The report was handled" would have sufficed. Instead, Voca was completely ignored. That's very sloppy handling.
     
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  5. Sly

    Sly Onward and Upward to Greater Glory VIP Silver

    I’m not aware of the situation or how it went down in not sure how the staff online handled it just my thoughts on why no slay would be applied. Yes I agree staff online should at the very least responded but as I said before I don’t know how it was handled.
     
  6. Noccam :^)

    Noccam :^) Member

    Oh haha, I wasn't blaming you, I was simply responding to your thought.
     
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  7. Dani

    Dani Impersonating Staff VIP

    Oh yeah, you seem to have the most competent Trial Mods in general.

    1. Gigantic firefight in which AngelX shoots a billion people and I damage AngelX.
    2. I get reported by your gay Trial Mod.
    3. I respond: "I don't remember this damage. Where exactly on the map did it happen?"
    4. Get no answer.
    5. Have to check damagelogs myself between rounds to see the obvious fact that AngelX was shooting people at the time.
    6. "Uuh Pacifist, why the fuck was I reported and why am I being ignored? Angel was shooting people; of course I had a valid reason"
    7. Get no answer.
    8. Get slain.
    9. Pacifist basically says, "Oh, sorry, I didn't see your reason in time. I will slay myself for this. But I couldn't give you an answer to your questions because literally every piece of information we could have possibly given you pointed to to the fact that you had a completely valid reason, so giving it to you would have spoiled it since we need to hear it from you". He said this using SGM's trademarked American robotic, fake language of professionalism.
    10. 2 minutes later, puts a slay on some other guy, again due to unreported damage handled by a Trial.
    11. Guy yells "What the fuck, he literally ran over an unidentified body? Why are you slaying me?!"
    12. A minute passes.
    13. "Why the fuck is there still a slay on me? I told you HE RAN PAST AN UNID'D!"
    14. 10 seconds before the slay, I join in: "Uhm, guys?! He's giving you a reason! Don't fucking slay this guy!"
    15. Nothing for 10 seconds.
    16. Guy gets slain.
    17. Literally a second after round starts, Pacifist puts yet another slay on himself for the false slay.
    18. Pacifist to You: "Those darn Trial Mods".
    To this day, Pacifist is under the impression that giving me any information on the case was absolutely forbidden.
     
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  8. TangoFox

    TangoFox The Best Is Yet To Come VIP Silver Emerald

    I can say that when I would train trials or any other new staff member before trials existed, if I knew it was the last round of a map and I was about to lose my evidence I would finish up reports. The reason I did this is that it didn't have to be trial by fire. I could simply use the information of unfinished reports by them to determine if they were ready to staff. It also took a lot of pressure off of the trials and allowed them to learn the ins and outs of the logs, what questions to ask someone, and see some extra back end things. After some learning time, I would also take care of the "easy" reports so they could focus on the more in depth reports.

    I think a lot more staff should take that approach when training trials. Mods, report to admins that a trial isn't finishing reports by the end of the round/ map and you're going to see an increase in speed at which reports are handled. Finish reports that you know your trial can't get to in enough time. You. As a mod or admin, should be able to anticipate those kinds of delays in reports when training a trial.

    Remember that trial by fire usually produces subpar results compared to a detailed, in depth, training that takes more time. Overwhelming them with information means they're not going to receive all of it. Finally, remember that these people you're training are the future leaders of the community.
     
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  9. Voca

    Voca o.o Moderator VIP

    The response he gave to my report was "ok................." So thats not the case for sure xD
     
  10. Voca

    Voca o.o Moderator VIP

    I get that Trials need experience with Chaotic servers as well, yet not all mods who have been trials had a chance to experience a chaotic server during their trial, they gained the experience of a chaotic server while they were a mod, and learned how to handle a chaotic server as a mod.
    To a point where the server is staffed by 4+ people, with 2 of them being a Trial and the one training the trial, the rest may not be looking into reports and are taking care of Spams and harassment stuff.
    But during a chaotic server with lots of reports to handle, and the other mods can see that there is a lot of pressure, few rounds left but still many reports to handle.

    I would say, as the mods who arent training, take care of a few reports for the trial, and teach him that being staff member isnt always working alone, but staffing together requires communication and helping each other.
     
  11. Pacifist

    Pacifist Very Strange Lead Admin VIP+ Bronze

    Yeah. I'm stupid. Sometimes I have other things happening that I have to attend to, in this given moment I was going to promote lars. After that happened I decided to wait on it, and I made sure to take responsibility for what happened as it was on me.

    i'm sorry what more do you want from me captain?
     
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  12. Dani

    Dani Impersonating Staff VIP

    That post is epic, Pacifist. Ignore everything between the dashed lines if you want to see actual questions and want to skip me shitting on staff and Americans.

    -----------------------------

    Since Americans often think that nothing is ever offensive unless a bad word from an arbitrary list of bad words is used, anyone reading your post will think that this

    is a diplomatic way to apologize and not a passive aggressive way to say "why do you care so much". I mean, the words are all nice, right?

    "I made sure to take responsibility" is such a cookie cutter, generalized meme sentence that I'm not even sure what you are actually saying; I just know that you're attempting to sound professional and diplomatic. Beep Boop I am admin-bot. Self-slays lead to redemption. Redemption acquired. Responsibility taken. Trust in staff increasing. Bleep Bloop. Nobody who thinks that they are actually at fault says that they're

    Some questions about Trial Mods (especially Lars, the person I avoided mentioning by name, but you took responsibility by telling the world that he did the bad):

    -----------------------------
    • Are Trial Mods told to ignore cases where it's fucking obvious that the person had a reason to commit the team-kill? They are, right? I mean, you did say a few days ago that he never should have reported that damage.
    • How much information were you allowed to give me in this case? None at all? Or maybe some of it? According to who? Why did you act like you were completely powerless after the report was made, as if you couldn't change the result? What's the reasoning behind the answer to these questions?
    • Did you call Lars incompetent and retarded after everything was over?
    • Did you explain to him why it was a bad idea to report me and then ignore my response? What exactly did you say? Did you call him retarded and incompetent?
    I genuinely hope that we can have a civil, professional and artificial-sounding discussion with some hints of passive aggression about this. I am looking forward to your response.

    Sincerely yours, Daniel Wagner
    Rotensterngasse 11
    1020 Wien
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
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  13. Pacifist

    Pacifist Very Strange Lead Admin VIP+ Bronze

    Hello daniel! I am so excited to answer your QUESTIONS!

    1. Trial moderators are kind of like first day on the job police officers. They are so ready for action they often times seek it out. Generally speaking, it is standard practice to investigate the unreported damage beforehand to see if there were any possible reasons for reporting. Obviously, we don't want to be reporting shit if it is clear crossfire or obviously a result of a gun fight. However, lars can report anything he damn well pleases. I actually understand this is a problem and I have been working on it with him since he got promoted yesterday. Finding balance is important, and I hope he can find it soon :)
    2. Well the idea is that if I give you too much information you can just lie and say that was why you killed the person. Like if I had told you that angelx was shooting, you would have just said "oh I killed her for that". So normally what I do is just supply a bit of context. In this situation I would have mentioned where you damaged angelx and with what weapon (in this case the prop) and try to guide you to where you would remember. I was powerless to stop the slay because you remembered what happened right before the slay took effect. That is all I can remember specifically.
    3. well he wasn't promoted that day
    4. I told lars that he needs to take a look at the logs before filing unreported damage. That it is quite predatory to report unreported damage that clearly has a reason associated with it. I also told him to supply context in situations where players did not remember. yes i did.

    With warm regards, gus man governmental man
    government building

    also i'm sorry i'm not australian or whatever but i am not passive aggressive captain, i just really like saying captain
     
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  14. Dani

    Dani Impersonating Staff VIP

    Dear dumb idiot,

    First of all, that's not "Hello daniel!"; it's "Dear Herr Wagner (BEd)!".
    Second of all, most of your post was good and made sense.

    Then I got to this part.

    [​IMG]

    This makes no sense. You describe what you would have done to guide me to a point of remembering what happened. All those things are effective ways of doing so without serving me the correct answer, so why didn't you just do that?
    You were powerless to stop the slay because I remembered too late? You didn't even do anything to help me remember, you absolute fool! My report response literally ASKED THE QUESTIONS that you would have given me the answers to according to your post. (I asked what the weapon was, where I was standing, etc.). Instead of answering, you decided to press auto-slay and thereby gave us all a time limit.

    I am looking forward to your gay answer.

    Daniel Bergmann
    Rotenturmstraße 4/9
    1010 Wien
     
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  15. Pacifist

    Pacifist Very Strange Lead Admin VIP+ Bronze

    Dear loser,

    yes I fucked up. sorry. :(

    sincerely, pacifist
    p.s. don't call this number again i am highly offended you called me a fool :mad:
     
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  16. .shirt

    .shirt VIP

    Man up and take it into your own hands witth some nice street justice. Don’t be a lil bitch and expect the officers(staff) to help you with everything that’s why we have the second amendment. @MiGGo
     
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  17. Rozboon

    Rozboon Forgive and Forget, or just forget. VIP


    You're an admin? Does this place not believe in professionalism anymore? there's a reason it's called toxic EX-staff not toxic CURRENT staff.

    Sarcastic much? again is this what one has to be to become an admin in this place now?

    Really? I try to only cause drama where it's needed but this shit is getting old, with an admin like this, it makes sense why there's so many valid reports on staff and so much shit attitude within the staff team that drives people away.
     
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  18. .shirt

    .shirt VIP

    But but but he has a lot of hours so we don’t care.
     
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  19. ZaneLoehr (Masochist Ver.)

    ZaneLoehr (Masochist Ver.) Warehouse 13 Next Generation VIP

    Always thought this was the norm, even more so now with the additional information like deathscenes.

    Also there is nothing wrong with removing a slay, listening to a player and re-adding the slay if its necessary. Actually this should be the norm, you'd see a lot less pissed off players and a lot less staff slaying themselves for errors.
     
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  20. MemeDaddy

    MemeDaddy VIP

    Mango no stop go away that makes too much sense :mad:
     
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