Answered 2 rule questions o.o

Discussion in 'Questions & Answers' started by Voca, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. Voca

    Voca o.o Administrator VIP

    Im aware the rules states you arent allowed to kill someone for DNA you dont know the source of E.G Bodies.

    But wouldnt there be an exception in the case that there are no Traitors Identified when you pick up an old DNA Scanner, and you are aware that since no Ts have died, the source can only be from an Innocent body?

    Question 2:

    A little confused about T baiting in a scenario from today, on 67th I shot a TnT block like I do every round, except for right before I shot the first block I saw someone running towards the area, so I stopped after the single shot I fired, was scared I damaged him, I didnt, but he then killed me for shooting the TnT while he wasnt close enough or in range of the explosion to take damage from it, I wasnt shooting in his direction either, as I was shooting left where the TnT was while he was further away.

    A mod handles the report, and says that he was close enough to the TnT for it to be considered T baiting, and later (after saying they were going to contact an admin about it) says "shooting the tnt goes under T baiting, therefor the kill was valid"
    I then later asked another admin about the case who said "would consider it t-baiting if he was close to the TNT
    But if it's how you said - that he wouldn't take damage at this position, it's a different story."

    Now if he was close enough to the TnT for me to shoot in his general direction, I think he would have taken damage from the explosion, but they didnt.

    Anyways, the rules and extended rules states nothing about t baiting by shooting explosives. If they damage people, sure I get why I would get killed, but shooting an explosive while noone was in danger or took damage from the explosive range, have never been seen as a T act.

    Extended rules states the following:

    Shooting players or towards them (also known as T baiting):
    • This means that even if you only shoot the wall near someone, it is still considered a T act.
    • Simply shooting your gun is not considered a T act if you don't shoot at/towards someone, like shooting the ceiling/floor or away from someone.
    • You must be able see what the other player is actually shooting at before you can KOS/kill them under this rule.
    So would wish rule to be clarified or agreed upon by staff, since 1 admin says 1 thing and another says something else o.o
     
  2. neutral

    neutral Banned VIP

    1. There is no exception in the rule. You have just satisfied it. You are aware that the DNA is from an innocent body.

    2. It sounds like you already got your answer from two separate admins- so I'm not sure why you're asking again here. Sounds like you're trying to make a suggestion that the rule should be stated more specifically rather than trying to actually find an answer- seeing as you've already been given an answer by two.
     
  3. iii

    iii eye-eye-eye or triple eye is fine VIP

    For the first question, you would also need to check the dna scanner to see if the dna was actually taken from a body and make sure a traitor wasn't identified and left.

    Could extend this common sense for cases where you witnessed the identification of all the traitor's bodies by that point and then made the bodies unreacheable before anyone could get dna from them... in that case you would also be sure that the dna on the scanner you found came from a innocent body (if you checked it and it was indeed taken from a body).
     
  4. TrinityBlade ⚔️

    TrinityBlade ⚔️ They question the king upon leaving. VIP

    Question 1:
    You can not act on any dna gained from a dna scanner that you have picked up. It's possible that a traitor could've left the game mid-way and the dna was from their corpse.
    These are the current extended rulings about picking up dna scanners:
    [​IMG]

    Question 2:
    I was online with you at the time when this report came in and Anastesia Lawes was the one who handled the report. I looked into it myself and your shot was close enough to the reported player in order for it to be classed as tbaiting. The report was invalid either way.
    As for the actual ruling for shooting TNT or Explosive Barrels:
    Shooting at explosive barrels or TNT is not specifically mentioned within the traitor baiting ruling, but is commonly used hand in hand with it. The actual definition of Traitor Baiting is the act of pretending to be a traitor. Whilst we only have the shooting definition of traitor baiting within our traitor baiting extended rules, we specifically detail some points which can be included within our Traitorous Acts section of our extended rules. Even though we do not specifically mention shooting TNT or explosive barrels within the Traitorous Acts section, it falls under a similar ruling as throwing frags, discombobs, or incendiary grenades. Even if these nades are thrown into places where no one can be damaged, it is still seen as a Traitorous Act, the same applies for TNT or Explosive barrels. It's unfortunate that it's not mentioned specifically within out rules, but this seems like a question better suited for suggestions rather than an actual question to be answered.
     
  5. Voca

    Voca o.o Administrator VIP

    Fair point to the first thing.

    And you are mistaken what Im saying for the second one, I said I got 2 different answers, meaning 1 admin said it was RDM and another Admin said it wasnt, and that the way the rules are currently written it seems like this case should have been RDM.

    I just want the staff team to come to an agreement wether shooting an explosive near a player while the initial explosion hurts noone, should be considered T baiting or not. Since the situation ended up confusing me of what I can possibly kill people for.

    As in it would be bad to have half the staff team slay for that tupe of kill and then the rest wont slay you o.o
     
  6. Teroxa

    Teroxa Vier Fäuste für ein Halleluja VIP Silver

    I think there's a misunderstanding here.

    Why you received 2 different answers to that question is because the 2 admins you mentioned (me being one of them) heard 2 different sides of the story.
    We all agree that it is considered t-baiting if you shoot at a barrel if another player is around and could be damaged by it and therefor it would be okay to kill someone for that.
    We also agree that if there's no player around that could be killed/damaged by the explosion, shooting near the explosives would not be t-baiting. Killing a player for shooting near a TNT block that wouldn't cause any harm if it exploded would be considered RDM.

    Why the answers you got are so different, is because we didn't witness the situation or see any video of it. The different answers are caused by a different perception of how far away from the TNT the player actually was.
    When you messaged me, you told me that the player wasn't close enough to take damage from the explosion. In that case, yes. The kill would be considered RDM.
    However, the mods online felt like the other guy was close enough to take damage. That's what the other admin in question was told.
    Since neither of us actually saw the video of the incident, so we could only give theoretical answers.

    If this paritcular kill would be RDM or not comes down to how far away from the TNT the other player actually was.
    If anyone happens to have some sort of recording of the incident, I'd be interested to take a look.


    Tl;dr:
    • If a player is close to the TNT block and would take damage if it exploded, shooting near it would be considered t-baiting.
    • If the player is further away, where he wouldn't take any damage and there's no other player around that would take damage either, it's not considered t-baiting.

    Hope I could clear up the confusion :angelic:
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
  7. Voca

    Voca o.o Administrator VIP

    It sorta does and sorta doesnt.

    The situation was that I didnt shoot near an explosive that could potentially hurt a player, no I shot the explosive and the player was far enough away from it to not get hurt by it. So goimg by the agreements it would be RDM, but on the other hand the other admin gave a verdict that it wasnt RDM

    Despide you explaining what in general would be Traitorous, the later situation is what happened, but the situation still gets 2 different verdicts from you and another admin.

    Yes, you didnt have the report to work from, but in the end your rule clarification confirms that the report would have been handled differently by 2 different admins o.o

    Anyways, not here to discuss if the verdict was wrong or right, I asked to get a clarification, so Thanks for that Teroxa ^~^
     
  8. Siddo

    Siddo Banned VIP Bronze

    The report would have been handled the same by 2 different admins.

    The difference, as Teroxa pointed out, is information about the situation.
    I was told you had shot a TNT that was near someone, in which case my verdict was that it would be traitorous - and thus, you could be killed. Your claim - and the description Teroxa got - is that the person was further away. Whichever was actually the case, the difference in our verdicts is that we were given different descriptions. It's not an inconsistency in how the rules are applied.
    Had I and Teroxa handled the report, we would reach the same verdict.
     
  9. Teroxa

    Teroxa Vier Fäuste für ein Halleluja VIP Silver

    Oh, seems I misunderstood what you initially told me then ^^'
    Well, in that case ... yes it would be RDM too.
    Just shooting a barrel/TNT block is not traitorous in itself. Only if another person is close enough to take damage, or the intent was clearly to damage a player.
    But the act of blowing up a barrel/TNT alone isn't considered a t-act.

    Siddo is right.
    Guess this was just a misunderstanding.
    In the end, we would have both handled the report in the same way.



    Apologies for any confusion this may have caused ^^'
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018