Completed Report against (T.W.I.G.) Titan, H3ll4flush

Discussion in 'TTT Staff/Player Reports' started by Rozboon, Sep 24, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Rozboon

    Rozboon Forgive and Forget, or just forget. VIP

    Name of Staff/Player:
    (T.W.I.G.) Titan, H3ll4flush
    Steam ID of Staff/Player:
    STEAM_0:1:60443089, STEAM_0:0:47679709
    Your Steam ID:

    Which Server:
    East 1
    Which Map:
    67thway_v14
    Which Round:

    Time of Occurence:
    4:15pm
    Reason For Report:
    H3ll4flush killed me after I Shot the roof, Titan claims I shot near h3ll4flush. After seeing the deathscene, it's obvious i wasn't shooting anywhere near hellflush since the first shot happens with hellflush in the other room, and the second happened after he started to shoot.

    Also thought H3ll4flush's response was funny.​
    Evidence And/Or Witnesses:
     
  2. TrinityBlade ⚔️

    TrinityBlade ⚔️ They question the king upon leaving. VIP

  3. Rozboon

    Rozboon Forgive and Forget, or just forget. VIP

    More screenshots of the conversation when he finished it.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  4. Rozboon

    Rozboon Forgive and Forget, or just forget. VIP

    Lasts screenshot of him going simply off the response.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Rozboon

    Rozboon Forgive and Forget, or just forget. VIP

    And last reply, report and response where Hell says it looked like i shot TOWARDS him
    [​IMG]
    Definition of TOWARDS
    [​IMG]

    So you're saying that me shooting the roof was in the direction of h3ll, was he above me? and the fact you didn't get more information from h3ll4flush means you completely disregarded the fact that hethought i shot towards him, and just thought it was because I was shooting, which again isnt a T act as stated by the rules
    [​IMG]

    That's all I got, awaiting your reply, mate.
     
  6. H3ll4Flush

    H3ll4Flush VIP Emerald

    Slay me or not but lets point that you always do that in the hope people kill you and so you can report them you are playing in a toxic way wich is annoying
     
  7. Rozboon

    Rozboon Forgive and Forget, or just forget. VIP

    You got a count on how many times I do it?
     
  8. Titan

    Titan SGM's official music nerd Administrator VIP Bronze

    Howdy. You've posted all the evidence needed here, but I reckon I'll repost them just for the sake of ease.

    Here is the report you filed + Deathscene:
    [​IMG]


    Let me start off by posting the extended ruling on T baiting.
    [​IMG]

    In your report, as you can see you were walking down the hall & met with H3ll4Flush, when you began to shoot your gun, in a way in which I decided was close enough to be considered t-baiting. To preface my decision, as you can see, the extended ruling doesn't particularly define particularly what "Shooting towards players" is. It's not black & white, and in fact it's in rather a grey area. This means that the actual definition, where one draws the line between shooting the ceiling and t-baiting, is defined differently by each and every staff member. What one person may consider t-baiting, another might consider as simply shooting. In your scenario, by my definition, you were shooting your gun towards a player. While you may have been shooting the ceiling, as you can see in the deathscene, your gunshots still went off in the direction of H3ll4Flush. They went towards him. They didn't go behind you, or to the right of you, directly above or below you, they went towards him.

    My general interpretation of this rule is that if you are shooting in a threatening manner in the direction of another player, you are liable to be killed for it. From H3ll4Flush's point-of-view, he turned a corner to witness you firing your weapon in his direction. He has no way of knowing your intent with him, so he decides to shoot you. You knew what you were getting yourself into when you began to fire in his direction, and I don't feel that it's right that I should slay a player for killing a second player that was shooting at him at the time. You have to remember that the real events that occurred were not in slow motion, there are not nice bright green lines to indicate tracers of exactly where your bullet is going, and lastly, the source engine does not do a great job of representing where a player is actually looking, especially if quickly flicking upwards.

    All in all, before making my decision on this report, I considered all of the following:
    • The extending ruling on t-baiting, and the accompanying vagueness of such.
    • The fact that the ruling can be interpreted different ways by different people, including my own interpretation.
    • The fact that you were indeed shooting, by definition, towards H3ll4Flush.
    • The fact that the event wasn't slow at all - It all occurred in the matter of only one or two seconds.
    • The victim's point-of-view -- turning the corner rapidly to be shot at, and reacting quickly as such. One isn't expected to pause the game, get out a protractor & measure the angle at which the bullet went past his head -- It wasn't clear if you were just shooting for the sake of shooting, or if you were shooting to kill, and you got killed for what you were doing. If you want to go around shooting above people's heads, dancing a fine line between t-baiting and not, reporting whenever you get killed for it, you should be prepared to not get your way all the time.
    • The fact that you have a very clear, extensive history on this exact topic, referencing shooting very near to players in an effort to get them to kill you so you can report them, again reinforcing my idea that you knew exactly what you were doing.
    • The fact that deathscenes are a convenient way to see the general idea of what went down, but in no way are the specific or accurate to real events, and often times are very vague, citing quick movements of the mouse that wouldn't show up as any movement on the deathscene, muzzle flares, & the actual position of the player's head vs what the deathscene shows.

    ...and made the decision to not slay H3ll4Flush. I'm sorry that you dispute this fact, and I'm sorry it didn't turn out how you wanted, but I carefully considered my actions throughout all of this, anally ensuring that every piece of information & evidence was in order, even going out of my way to upload a deathscene for you while asking and answering many questions. I am confident that I'm not in the wrong here. I could be wrong, I'm not perfect, however, all things considered, this was a carefully calculated decision that I feel I'm right in making. You might think that this was the wrong conclusion, but all I've to say to that is, I disagree.

    That's really all I have to say. I'd say I'll leave the report to my admin to finish up, but I don't particularly have an admin, soooooo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  9. Rozboon

    Rozboon Forgive and Forget, or just forget. VIP

    First off lets deal with some things like this one

    "The fact that you have a very clear, extensive history on this exact topic, referencing shooting very near to players in an effort to get them to kill you so you can report them, again reinforcing my idea that you knew exactly what you were doing."

    I have a history of doing this? How so? Because h3ll4flush said i do? I'd like to see this "List" of me doing this in the past to get people slayed because I'm pretty sure the last report on the forums by me is from someone else doing it which lead me to being slayed. Here

    "The fact that the ruling can be interpreted different ways by different people, including my own interpretation."
    "The fact that the event wasn't slow at all - It all occurred in the matter of only one or two seconds."

    I mean sure, but you all have a general idea of how close it has to be for T baiting, not in a whole different room where the person is shooting the roof lol, and the short time is on him, if he didn't want to chance it he should have spent a second more and see that i was shooting the roof as he wasn't in any immediate danger, especially since he's played for a long time and has a decent shot and knows he could probably win.

    Now lets break down the scene so we can get your idea of what "Towards" is, because honestly it's hilarious how wrong you are as seen in this pictures.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I lit the area up a bit better so u can see where everyone was, first off we were in 2 different rooms, if you truly calculated and analyzed the scene to the max you'd also realize he had no idea what I was shooting at which is also slay worthy as you need to make sure you know what the person is shooting at before you kill them.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Now from the second shot you can see that h3ll4flush started to shoot me before i even shot another shot, so the second ceiling shot has no play on this at all

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Now the final set of screenshots show just how close and how it wasn't towards h3ll4flush at all.

    H3ll4flush didn't see where my shot went, nor did he see a tracer go past his head, so he reacted wrongfully and should have been slayed.

    And you titan should have realized where I was shooting and not try to attribute the shot to it being towards h3ll4flush when it's clearly at the ceiling, you also said it yourself that it all happened so fast, that he could have held his shot for 1 more second and seen I was shooting the roof and this situation would never have happened.

    So in the end you fucked up, Doesn't matter what H3ll4flush thought, or if he claims that he saw the shot go past his head because in the end, and with deathscene to back it up, he was WRONG which means he should been slayed.
     
  10. Rozboon

    Rozboon Forgive and Forget, or just forget. VIP

    Gonna go ahead and get a retag on Opalium to finish this so we all can get an idea of what T baiting or not t baiting is for the future @Opalium
     
  11. Lion

    Lion Ryan's Favorite Admin Banned VIP

    Hello,

    Opalium currently has @Grimoire+ looking over titan and his homeless team. Sorry for any confusion given from the current situation.
     
  12. Grimoire+

    Grimoire+ Sigillum diaboli VIP

    Hey there @Rozboon

    I apologise for the long delay on this, it seems communication got caught up and people didn't realise i was put in to oversee helix's old side of the team.

    When it comes to T-baiting and the rule regarding such there is small room for interpretation however in this case it is clearly obvious that you were shooting the ceiling and not at h3lla which yes, you was shooting in his general direction but not in the way that the ruling considers it a T act, in cases like these the rule states to be clearly able to see what the player is shooting at and seeing as you fired both times at the ceiling while h3lla was looking directly at you it is clear he jumped the gun by accident which makes it RDM, i will go ahead and mark this as valid and issue a slay on h3lla and also talk to titan regarding the rulings.

    Thanks.
    ~Grimoire+
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.