Chest Shops. How to fix the server and keep it the same. My experiences.

I love chestshops and I think it is one of the more important plugins to include on this economy based server (as it should of been from the start)

I hope my support and your dedicated postings will work towards getting this added!
(Or maybe it already is, dev please reply!)

 

Like I said before, a server market wouldn't help anything, only hurt. I know what you are trying to say, but in the end, it will only do bad, because it forces people to a standardized price, thereby setting the bar for everything else, unless that price is an insanely high one nobody would ever buy, in which case it is pointless to begin with. Chestshop is a great idea, but don't try to enhance it with a server market, the sole exception being extremely finite resources such as Sea Lanterns, Dragon Eggs, Totems, maybe end rods, things you can't just find lying around commonly

 

But the point is, is that we need to set the bar for items so the prices aren't overblown. Chestshops would help as stated many times by AngryWild_Mango. The server market as of now in my opinion is a bit overpriced which makes it easier for players to inflate the price as much as they want that's lower than the server market's price. Taking advantage of it. For an example, mending books. You can get them from villagers for a fair price of about 30 emeralds or so and a book. I was able to get about 6 all at once from trading constantly and getting my supply of emeralds for dirt cheap items. They make mending books seem scarce when in reality they're just hogging them and slowly dripping them out into the market or in an auction. It keeps it so people think that it's a reasonable price for something that's falsely scarce.

Although chestshops can still do the same thing, it brings more interraction and creativity to the players instead of quickly going into /market listings. It connects the players more and that's what we need, as stated in most of Mango's replies. I don't see any downside from using chestshops. There's nothing really to lose.

 

Except that how are we going to judge what is overpriced and what is underpriced right off the bat? Whatever the market sets, THAT will be the standardized price. Just because people are holding onto them doesnt make them any less valuable. What businessman would go and sell their items at little to no profit? Or flood the market in a way that there is no longer a demand? Mending is still difficult to obtain, requiring either a villager spawner or a villager farm, both of which require either extreme luck or a ton of effort.

Your example exemplifies something that would completely undermine the point of chestshop. If the server market is cheaper than what people are WILLING to sell things for, then why even have a player market? Let players undervalue players, not the server.

 

First in my opinion, we need to adjust the server market prices so they're reasonable, most of them are, but I'd like to see an extension to other useful supplies so it's not just items you can rarely find or have to rely on others for. Because the extremely high prices now on some of the items in the server market are a bit extreme, giving lots of room for people to ask for quite a lot of money for something so easily found. (I think one item was around 35k or so which is a bit too much for the majority of the players on the server)

If we were to lower the prices (except for the custom spawners), add chestshops, players would be able to choose between competing with the market prices and other players. If they'd rather sell it cheaper or more expensive depending on the rarity, average cost and the amount of the item, etc. the economy is a very complex and delicate thing, it will always be filled with competition of who can sell the product cheaper, or more accessible to the seller.

(Also there is no way to obtain a villager spawner unless you have someone with creative make one for you, which I believe would probably be against the rules or the use of some sort of exploit.)

 

The only things I see go for above 10k are equipment that is god-tier or items like Dragon Eggs or Sea lanterns, and that is between players. Nothing but market-exclusive spawners sell in the market.

The way you are arguing makes less and less sense to have a server market with. The economy IS a very complex and delicate thing. Why ruin it by forcing prices onto people who are more than capable of working them out themselves? We don't need server prices to end up with fair ones. If we go back to your mending example, nobody would sell mending if its not worth their time. If you made mending on the server market sell for to cheap, the demand for it would drop to insignificance. If you want a player-driven economy, have a player-driven economy, not a server-driven economy, which is exactly what we'd be left with if the Server market was a place you went to to get supplies.

 

Also, you could have purchased a villager spawner on the market early on during the server's life, just an Fyi. I have one.

 

I know you do, you've flaunted it around the server before.

I'm a bit ashamed that this thread turned into a bit of an aggressive argument, I'm not going to say anything any longer in this thread as I'm constantly spammed with negative ratings by you whenever I disagree with any of your claims.

Hopefully someone else can pick the convo back up on a reasonable topic that won't eventually get the thread locked due to bickering.

 

We were having a completely relevant conversation up until this point, and one that I was viewing as productive. If you don't have anything more to say, that's fine, but I would like to continue it if we can. Also, just going to take the opportunity to say I wasn't the one to start the ratings trend.
A server market has a massive impact, and can completely destroy an economy, while only forcing players into limiting their pricing range. If you have a solution to this, or why this is a good thing, please say it. I will ask the following questions of you, please answer as precisely as you can:
1. Why can't players figure out the price of items for themselves?
2. Why have a cheap market with standard supplies run by the server when we can have players run the same markets? Why not just leave it all to the players?
3. How are the Staff going to determine what is a fair price, especially considering how they seldom play?
4. Will the staff update the prices of a server market as they fluctuate or drop?
5. What items will be sold in the shop?


Edit: In cast Astaaroth won't, will someone who things a server-run shop is a good idea answer these questions? Because they are important.

 

I'd like to continue this convo, I'd just like to avoid anything that could lock the thread.

1. Of course players can figure out prices for themselves, but that usually depends on the consumer if they'd rather buy x amount of something for more or less. That's the competition of it.
For an example: P1 sets up a shop that sells 2 diamonds for $250 while P2 sells 4 diamond for $300. You'd go for P2's shop as it's more items and in the long run, you get more for your money.
That would then allow players to adjust their prices to still be relivant and able to make a profit.

2. The server market has an endless supply, player markets are limited. You won't have to rely on people to restock their stores if you need a certain item in a large quantity (glass, stone, bricks, etc.)
I think we could leave it to the players, but that truly depends on the effort people put into keeping their shops up and running for others. But they might run out of a certain item and may not be able to restock right away if they're busy with other things.

3. I think once there are new changes to the server surfacing. The staff will be able to determine what are some reasonable prices for items. There is a command that checks the prices of certain items already but I feel like it's way off, but I might be wrong.
Maybe even the community can help pitch in the average prices for items on the server, like what people are willing to buy at what price. (It doesn't completely have to be determined by the staff)

4. I feel like there must be a way to effectively do this, maybe there's a plugin out there that creates discounts for certain items due to their lack of being purchased? But that's just an idea.
I know it would be a pain in the ass to constantly have to change the prices whenever there's a high demand for something or an excessive amount of something.

5. Maybe not easily obtainable items such as dirt or gravel and such, but maybe more items that help builders such as chiseled blocks or other building materials that could be hard to get. Such as assorted colored blocks or glass, to benifit the more creative side of players.

(Sorry for not replying sooner, I was a bit busy)

 

1. This would be completely undercut by a server market, because then they would be forced to conform to the market standard rather than a player one.

2+5. Giving an endless supply of anything completely undervalues it. The only way this would be a good option for players is if it was insanely cheap, which would make people who worked to obtain it but have no use for it with chests full of just worthless stone. I usually have 4-8 double chests full of stone, because I always mine with a silk touch, and I know other people do the same.

3+4. Again, fluctuating prices devalues the purpose of player-run stores. If we can get everything we need at the server store for a reasonable price, why have chestshops?


From this, it appears your main focus is to get building materials. I have ample building materials of all types, because I usually build small, efficient structures rather than elegant ones, other than my tower. I am on a lot so I am constantly amassing more and more. The shop I would run would be very profitable. However, there wouldn't be a point if everyone could just go to the market to get whatever they need, and the prices were so low that anyone could get what they wanted in short order.

 

Don't want to read the above, so I'm just gonna reply with my thoughts:

There should be no server market. It definitely shouldn't buy or sell anything (with a few exceptions). The economy should be completely player driven. Last I heard Disruptionz was trying to tweak the jobs algorithm so you earn more money from jobs, but in a balanced manner. Once the jobs income is fixed, we do a balance reset and ensure the market isn't buying anything at the very least. This way, even the players with a bunch of shit, can't just sell it to the infinite market to earn in-game cash. They would have to sell to players, and with all the player's in the same balance situation - well, lets just say it'd be hard going.

Completely player driven economies CAN work. It works excellent in Eve Online, it can work in Minecraft. The only thing the "server" should sell would be upgrades (sethome, silk touch, etc.) and POTENTIALLY (if we want to keep selling) spawners that are otherwise unobtainable. The issue lays in balancing pricing for those items, which would be hard while the economy is still be established.

 

Is my reputation really so bad I cant have any valid conversation?

 

Right now you're just because insecure. I skimmed over what was said, I just didn't want to quote and reply to each section of the conversation. As far as I can tell, my opinion is more on side with your argument, so I'm not sure what you're getting worked up about.

 

I wasnt worked up as much as genuinely curious. Ast was mentioning how it was turning into an aggressive argument when I really didnt see how it was earlier, combined with you not reading it really does make one feel insecure.